Irons

[bruce]

I don't do FB either. Here's the instructions for posting photos. Currently, individual file size is limited to 250 KB, but that's huge, and requires scrolling to see the full photo. 80 KB or so is plenty.
https://cpyoa.com/forum/index.php?topic=9472.0

If you're a Mac user like me, Preview allows you to resize photos easily. I usually just set the largest dimension to 700 pixels.

[Jim in TC]

On our (older) PC we resize pix in Microsoft Picture Manager. Hopefully that user-friendly program is still around; open in Picture Manager, go to Edit Pictures then Compress Pictures under Change Picture Size (on the right side of frame) for several options.

[Al]

I use Win-10 Pro, and XNview for pix editing, etc.  I found the stuff Bruce posted by looking in the archives last nite.  Tried a cupla things in the 'test' area.  Will make things 700 pixels in longest dim. and hopefully remember all when needed      thanks to all

[bruce]

Your second test photo looks good. The first being a 273.92 KB JPG "big sized" (?). The second, a 851.33 KB PNG, but smaller dimensions (?), is better. JPG and PNG are both reportedly supported.

Not sure why the 851.33 KB file was accepted, with a 250 KB limit. I usually post JPG. Some have reported problems with JPEG. iPhone photos typically are HEIC, which causes problems. Converted to JPG they work fine.

[Cpy23ecl]

Went out for a sail this week with 10 - 15  kts of wind and was able to tack each time without ending up in irons - barely.  With boat speed of 5 kts while sailing on a beam reach the only way I avoided irons was by backwinding the jib and even at that she barely made it through the tack.  The turned stalled enough before backwinding the jib that it flogged enough that the jib sheet would end up hanging up on the gin pole pin.  As much as I like the gin pole arrangement for raising the mast the pin is a royal pain while sailing.

I'm leaning even more to thinking the problem is the rudder.  I noticed that even at 5kts boat speed the rudder is very "mushy" feeling compared to other boats I've owned and boat response was much slower than I would expect for the amount of rudder applied and felt as much a brake as a rudder.

I may just bite the bullet over the winter and replace it with a ruddercraft rudder and see how that works.

Fred

[Fastdoc98]

For hanging up on the gin pole stub, one trick is to take your unused jib halyard and run it behind the cleat on the mast down to the bracket in front of the front hatch and keep it taut.  That gets the jib sheets to ride over without snagging the stub.

[bruce]

Fred, I'll post here only because I have experienced the type of rudder feel you describe: Mushy, especially at speed, and not as effective as I expected.

The problem was the kick-up rudder was pivoting up in the wash starting at about 3-4 kts if I hadn't tighten the pivot bolt adequately. Rather than lean over the transom (bad design), I installed a DIY hold down device that works well, if I remember to set the clamp at the tiller to the right tightness (enough to hold the rudder down but still allow it to kick up). If I don't, the rudder will pivot up and get mushy.

Looking at photos, I see many, if not all Eclipses, have the Com-Pac foiled rudder and rudder control arm. If you have that set up, and the control arm is doing its job, then I guess that's not it.

[alsantini]

Just a little comment on the rudder position.  If you drop the rudder all the way down the tang on the rudder  rod should be a snug fit under the hold down.  If you have play then the rudder can float up and perhaps that is your mushy feel.  If the rudder has hit anything and kicked up, the rod might be bent a bit.  It needs to lock the rudder down and the welded square on it fit into the rudder cheek plates. To be able to do both it needs to be almost perfectly straight.  Sail on,  Al

[Cpy23ecl]

For hanging up on the gin pole stub, one trick is to take your unused jib halyard and run it behind the cleat on the mast down to the bracket in front of the front hatch and keep it taut.  That gets the jib sheets to ride over without snagging the stub.

Thanks for the tip, would have never thought about doing that.

Fred

[Cpy23ecl]

The problem was the kick-up rudder was pivoting up in the wash starting at about 3-4 kts if I hadn't tighten the pivot bolt adequately.

I've experienced that on my 23.  It also added a lot of pressure to the tiller when it pivot up some.

Fred

[Cpy23ecl]

Just a little comment on the rudder position.  If you drop the rudder all the way down the tang on the rudder  rod should be a snug fit under the hold down.

The rudder was all the way down and the rudder control rod is quite snug when fitted under the hold down.

Fred

[johnno]

Sorry to hear you're still having issues. Have been out a few times lately and never the slightest problem tacking in winds from almost zero up to about 15knts. I do find speed and groove of the boat is sensitive to fore and aft trim, and the mast rake issue might be really hurting you there. On the other hand, in my experience, a sloop will never really sail well into the wind under jib alone, so in a way, though I've never tried it, I'm not overly surprised.

I keep feeling something else must be wrong though.  I always have plenty of forward momentum by the way and don't have the feeling the boat is light.

Mainly I'm posting though just to try to get Mat's picture up here for you and others who were interested.

[alsantini]

Fred.  Not to run this into the ground but yesterday I was out sailing and I paid attention to exactly how I tack the Eclipse.  I had the advantage of strong winds 18+ at one end and 3-5 at the other.  I had one reef in the main and 50% of the Genoa out.  I was able to tack at both ends of the Lake although my procedure varied.  Both my centerboard and rudder were all the down, and I was having fun!!   At the high wind end, I turned into the wind moving the rudder all the way to the coamings almost as fast as I could move the tiller.  I popped the Genoa sheets.  Returned the rudder to a neutral position and re-set the genoa.  Process took around 6 seconds.  At the low wind end of the Lake I did the same rudder action but left the genoa sheet cleated so the wind would push the bow through the tack.  Prior to tacking I picked up speed.  Process took around 15 seconds.  When I was done sailing I dropped the main, and sailed with full Genoa just to see if I could tack easily.  No go! I could almost tack in the high wind side of the Lake but could only jibe in low winds.   I don't think any boat will have good control with just the genoa or jib.  I have a Catalina 14.2 also and sailing with the just the jib does not work.  Your other comment about the rudder being mushy.  I tried to concentrate on rudder feel yesterday.  My boat steers like a dream.  I sail with a very light touch on the tiller and when tacking I leave the tiller at the coamings and it stays there until I bring it a mid ships.  Question - have you verified that the mast is plumb.  When I bought off the wind I stepped the mast in the driveway and it did not look correct.  Angled aft.  So, I went to a flat parking lot, leveled the boat and stepped the mast.  It took close to 10 turns on the side stays to get the mast basically neutral.  I did not sail it with the mast angled aft so I have no idea how it would handle.  Now, with the mast plumb and stays adjusted with a loos gauge, the boat has a neutral helm.  Have any of the other Eclipse sailors here checked or adjusted the mast rake?  I also wonder if the mast stub through the cabin is plumb.  I have never checked it, but I will next time I am at the boat.  Sail On   Al

[Cpy23ecl]

Thx Al.

The mast is definitely raked forward.  I called compac and talked to Gerry today and he told me the mast is raked forward so that it is plumb or slightly raked aft when the weight of 1 or 2 adults is added to the cockpit.  He also has no idea why the boat doesn't tack.   The helm does balance nicely and rounds up when hit with a gust.

He did say that adding a shackle between the stem head and furler would move the mast aft a bit and thereby add a bit of weather helm which might make tacking easier.

I've tried moving the tiller slowly as well as quickly and it doesn't appear to make any difference.  I'm going to add a d-shackle to the furler next spring and see if it helps.  If it doesn't I think I'll try going to a larger rudder blade.

I've always been able to tack with my other boats even when sailing with just the jib but I've always had a 150 or 155 genoa on the other boats so the helm would balance better with the larger sail.

We just brought the boat home last week (the marina closes the day after labor day) and its in the pole barn for the winter now so I won't know anything more until next spring.

Fred

[Cpy23ecl]

I added a 2" long d-shackle between the stemhead and the furler drum this spring.  The mast is now almost vertical with just a very slight lean aft compared to the original pronounced lean forward.  Took her out for the first sail of the season this week and actually was able to tack without ending up in irons!!

The boat still tacks VERY slowly compared to any other boat I've sailed but at least it does tack now.

Fred