Irons

[Cpy23ecl]

Anybody else with an eclipse have trouble with the boat ending up in irons when tacking?  It's almost as bad as my 23 was with the original flat blade rudder before I replaced it with a ruddercraft rudder.

Also tried sailing with just the jib the first time on the water this year as conditions were a bit blustery and found it impossible to sail the boat.  It just kept falling off to the point where it was making almost no headway.  The rudder just wasn't effective enough to overcome the force on the jib.

I know the eclipse is supposed to sail better than the 23 but it feels far worse to me, almost to the point where I wish I had stayed with the 23.  I'm probably missing something but I've been sailing since the mid 80's and this is the worst performing boat of any that I've owned (6 so far).

Fred

Fred

[Fastdoc98]

Although I don't have as much experience as you, I've not found that the boat is getting stuck in irons often.  I have used the technique that Al showed me of backwinding the jib while tacking to push the nose around which also helps to keep the jib from hanging up on the pin on the front of the mast.  I have found that with higher wind conditions a reefed main and reduced jib balance pretty well.

[Jim in TC]

Our SunCat has a bit of difficulty coming about in some conditions, and easing the sail out further than I would expect to be necessary catches enough wind to give the rudder a bite.

[alsantini]

Fred.  Here are some thoughts.  The Eclipse is very dependent on sail position as most small boats are.  When you get in irons or just before let out the main.  Also backwind the Genoa during a tack and let it push the bow through irons.  Works every time for me.  Good luck and keep in mind that you do not have the mass through the water to carry you through a tack that you had with the 23.  You need some boat speed which will only be achieved with sail position.  If you ever start wandering with the rudder being ineffective let out the sail!  Good luck and don't give up on the Eclipse.

[Cpy23ecl]

I have found that with higher wind conditions a reefed main and reduced jib balance pretty well.

Normally I wouldn't sail this boat with jib alone, but it was the first outing after launching and when I went to raise the main I discovered that I had the main halyard fouled inside the "baby" stays on the mast above the spreader so opted to try sailing with just the jib rather than go back in and untangle the main halyard.

Fred

[Cpy23ecl]

Fred.  Here are some thoughts.  The Eclipse is very dependent on sail position as most small boats are.  When you get in irons or just before let out the main.  Also backwind the Genoa during a tack and let it push the bow through irons.  Works every time for me.  Good luck and keep in mind that you do not have the mass through the water to carry you through a tack that you had with the 23.  You need some boat speed which will only be achieved with sail position.  If you ever start wandering with the rudder being ineffective let out the sail!  Good luck and don't give up on the Eclipse.

With just the jib by the time I let the sail out enough that enough that the rudder was effective again I had lost so much speed that she still wouldn't tack.  After many attempts I finally gave up on tacking and gybed the boat.  I forgot about backwinding the jib.  I used to do that with my 23 when it still had the flat blade rudder but didn't need to do it anymore after switching to the ruddercraft rudder.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Fred

[Andre]

Fred

A couple of suggestions from a catboat (PC and HC) sailor but this should apply.

If you're very close hauled prior to tacking, fall off the wind a bit to pick up a bit more speed and then tack. The extra speed may get you through the tack. You may have to trim the sails a little for this.

Also I find it helpful to turn the rudder somewhat gradually when tacking. Too slowly and you'll probably stop before getting through the eye of the wind, too abruptly and the drag of the rudder will slow you down and you'll probably stall the blade. How gradually? You'll need to develop a feel for it, but maybe 3-5 seconds from dead ahead to hard over. I think of it as maintaining a constant angle of attack of the rudder blade to the water flow - as the boat begins to turn you can crank in more rudder to maintain that angle.

Hope that makes sense .....

Andre

[Cpy23ecl]

I'll need to pay more attention to how quickly I'm turning the rudder.  My guess is I'm turning it faster than you mentioned.

Thx.

Fred

[bruce]

Agree with all that's been offered. A couple more thoughts.

We don't have a shoal keel, but I have found if I've neglected to add some centerboard when we come into the wind that subsequent tacks can be difficult. Lacking lateral resistance, the boat will slide sideways rather than tack. The shoal keel alone may be enough.

Also, dragging an outboard can adversely effect a tack. The stern doesn't want to come around.

[Cpy23ecl]

I'm sailing in deep water so centerboard is always completely down and my outboard tilts high enough to not drag.  I'll be out again this weekend so I'll try the suggestions and see how it goes.

Thanks

Fred

[johnno]

I'd also check your mast rake.  Mine when supplied had the mast leaning way forward.  Gerry said it tended to come back better when sailing because most people's ballast tended to move the mast back towards vertical.  Not sure about that, but I added a few inches to my furler/forestay ( to clear the anchor) and find it now sails beautifully, and looks much better as well.

[Cpy23ecl]

Interesting that you say that.  My mast also leans forward and does look a bit odd to my eye.  Probably is closer to vertical with 2 adults in the cockpit but never thought to check that.  Right now I've only got a 2.2kg claw anchor because that's the largest anchor that would fit under the furler drum and that's really too small of an anchor for a boat of this size. 

Fred

[Jim in TC]

Out yesterday I tinkered with the "slower rudder" idea and it did seem to help.

Unrelated, I noticed that 2 of the 4 sail slides had broken (probably last time out, since it was pretty noticeable), leaving the slide bits in the mast. I am guessing that one of them failed (probably simply wore through most of the way, and took another compromised one with it). As it happened there were a few old spares aboard and repairs were pretty quick, and new spares are in hand.

[slode]

Had Sylvia out over the weekend and tried tacking under jib alone in light wind (<3 knot, barely a ripple)  As Fred experienced it's not easy to get through a tack, The lift on the jib through the air can easily equal or overcome the lift force on the rudder through the water and you end up just slipping sideways.   A few things I found to make it work.  Board must be all the way down.  Bear off to gain some speed then as you bear up let out the jib and let it luff so it doesn't "pull on" the front of the boat as you turn.  You should be able to get it just past head to wind and then the jib will backwind and push you through the turn.  If the boat stops dead with the jib backwinded turn the rudder the opposite way and you will turn through as the boat backs up.  You may end up on a beam reach by the time you get the jib set to the other side and start moving again.  Not sure if it's faster than going through a 270 deg gybe but it's good to figure out how to handle different conditions.

[Cpy23ecl]

I had the eclipse out this last week on Lk Huron and again ended up in irons.  I'd estimate winds were around 15 kt gusting over 20, seas were 1 to 2 ft.  I was sailing on a broad reach and slowly turned the rudder (2 - 3 seconds) and left the jib sheeted so it would backwind but even though i had around 4kts of boat speed I still ended up in irons.  At times I really hate this boat!

Fred