CP-23 Bluewater?

[Epic1969]

I will be picking up my new to me CP-23 early March from current owner. It's cold here in northern Ohio and I need motivation looking forward to spring! While I realize that the CP-23 is far from ideal as a Bluewater cruiser,  I am compiling a list of upgrades/modifications to make my CP-23 Blue as possible. The idea would be to slowly bring it up to Bluewater specs testing on Erie over the next couple years and eventually sail it to Hawaii from Cali. In my 50th year 5 years from now (ugh)! I know a Potter 19 did this same trip a couple years ago and in my opinion a CP-23 is "bluer" than a P-19 Webb Chiles sailed an OPEN 19' sailboat in the Pacific etc...so if you would like to add to my list feel free to add ideas!

1. Decrease cockpit footwell to reduce swamping time by glassing in more area.
2. Increase cockpit draining by adding another drain or increasing size of installed ones.
3. Rebedding hull/deck seam and adding bolts.
4. Replace all rigging, attachment points and chain plates.
5. Add a secure vent hatch with a 100% waterproof companionway door (at least at time of departure) 
6. Add lifelines and set up all sail controls from the cockpit.

Obviously a sea anchor and ALL associated safety gear.

7. Save up for next 4 years have fun with the CP23 sell it and buy a Cape Dory 25 or Flicka?

[HeaveToo]

I know that a few Compac 23s have done Miami to the Bahamas.  I would think that would be a better trip and a lot safer one. 

There is a lot of argument about what makes a blue water boat.  People have sailed all kinds of boats in different situations and they have survived.  I have heard of a Catalina 27 that did a circumnavigation.

Here is the thing...you are going to spend a lot of money modifying the boat and getting it set up.  You are dealing with a major issue of limited tankage.  There isn't enough room to carry enough water on the boat.  That is a huge obstacle.  You can overcome with a water maker but then you are dealing with power consumption. 

If you REALLY want to do a run to Hawaii, you will probably need a different boat.

I would suggest looking at doing the Florida Keys, the Bahamas, etc.  It would be much cheaper and much easier to do.  You still get a little blue water in the crossing and then you can island hop. 

From what I am told, that is a big hop on a Compac 23 too because you cross the gulf Stream.  This is serious business!

[frank]

Epic....

You are correct in saying there have been many long crossings in much lessor boats. A Montgomery 15 sailed to Hawaii, "Tinkerbel" at 13ft crossed the Atlantic....as have much smaller boats.

That said.....I totally agree with Heave To.

You live in the NE. Trailer it down to Florida, explore Biscayne Bay and the Keys, hop over to Bimini (very funky) from there cross to Port Lucaya (another one day crossing) Sail up to the West End, then throughout the Abacos. Return to the West End and cross back to Stuart.

That would give you 3 Gulf Stream crossings and 4 days in the Abacos "out of sight of land".....7 times total.

With good forcasts, the CP23 is perfect for that!!! The shallow draft is a real plus both in the Florida Keys and the Abacos. You would have fun!!! You would learn what you like and don't like.....what you need and don't need....all the while enjoying great new scenary, meeting other cruisers and experiencing bigger water.....without trailering across country and commiting to a 1-1/2mth crossing of a potentially volatile body of water that is sure to kick your butt at some point over that long a period of time. The question isn't IF....it is WHEN....and how hard.

Heh....there is more to see in the Keys and Abacos.  More fun to be had!!

After a Keys-Abacos trip.....then decide if you want to put your life on the line......

The 23 was never intended for blue water (nor was the potter, the M15 or Tinkerbelle) I know it possible "could" be done.....BUT

I've got 1000's of offshore miles, I've crossed the Gulfstream in a 23 twice (as well as many other boats both larger and smaller) It WILL give you a true taste of "off shore". It CAN seriously kick your butt!!

Try that route 1st, enjoy the cruise, sites and people along the way.....then decide....

PS...this message coming to you from CP27 "Allure", Green Turtle Cay, Abacos    :-)

[Mas]

Hey Epic,

I also second the comments re: the 23 for such a trip. we have a CP23D that has been set up for coastal cruising with it's inboard diesel and a 12 gallon tank that allows for 4 non stop days of steaming at 5 knots, at least 30 gallons of water tankage built in, a marine head, bulk propane system (with all safety features), a cutter rig, auto helm, a life line tether point in cockpit, all line led to cockpit, chart plotter with back up, paper charts as well. The operant word was costal cruising. The 23 is a wonderful LITTLE boat and if my life depended on it i would take it to Hawaii but why. They have been across the Gulf Stream and the shoal draft would be a huge asset in the shoal situations in the Bahamas or Keys. Plus the trip to Hawaii is easier than the return trip.

Enjoy her for a few years and decide if such a trip is still in your cards. If so there are many boats that can be had for such trips at reasonable prices as the market is still very depressed and will probably remain that way. Also might wanna simply consider a charter situation, or crewing on a boat headed that way. The 23's have a good resale market if in good condition as small, transportable boats like her are far less expensive to own than a larger craft. We could re-sail our entire genoa, main, staysail, spinnaker inventory for the same price as a main alone on a 30 ft craft.

Welcome and congrats on the boat and enjoy!

[Epic1969]

Thanks for the great suggestions. I do like the proposed itinerary crossing the gulf stream several times to get some "bluer" water experience. Maybe after a summer cruising the Erie islands/crossing Erie to Canada etc. I could get a month off work next spring and give Florida a go. I'm 45 now hopefully the 2nd half of my life will be full of sailing adventures! On a side note, I am an airline pilot and have flown the offshore route from Newark to west palm Fl. Over ~200x in my career often wondering what a sail in the gulf stream would be like.

[frank]

I 1st  "cruised"" down here in 02.  Sailing since 77....thought I knew what I needed.
Wrong!!!!    

I had WAY too much stuff ($$$) not needed and several items "needed"!!!

A cruise like No Mas and I discribe will open your eyes.....

Do it! ....Then figure out what you truly want.....and have fun along the way!!!

[Craig Weis]

Buy saying this and making these changes what is being said?

'Make Her A cork. Corks don't sink.'

These modifications ...

1. Decrease cockpit footwell to reduce swamping time by glassing in more area.
2. Increase cockpit draining by adding another drain or increasing size of installed ones.
3. Rebedding hull/deck seam and adding bolts.
4. Replace all rigging, attachment points and chain plates.
5. Add a secure vent hatch with a 100% waterproof companionway door (at least at time of departure)  
6. Add lifelines and set up all sail controls from the cockpit. Obviously a sea anchor and ALL associated safety gear.
7. Save up for next 4 years have fun with the CP23 sell it and buy a Cape Dory 25 or Flicka?

Prevent the ingress of the seas.

Me? If I could afford it, I'd purchase a Flicka. Quality through out Just look at how thick the chain plates are and the wire rope rigging is. Stout~!
The boat will take far more than the crew can.

All this junk came out of my CP-19 ... far less went back in. I cut another 16" x 16" hatch in the vee birth in front of the compression post for soft items storage.

skip.

[HeaveToo]

A great winter trip would be to put the boat in the water in Florida.  Sail over to the Bahamas.  From there you could island hop all the way down to the virgin islands.  You would gain some experience here.

I would suggest a really good starting point would also be some big lake cruises or a Chesapeake Bay Cruise.  If you really want some hard earned and nasty experience try crossing into the Potomac River from the Chesapeake Bay in a gale.  Been there, done that, not with this boat.  I know world cruisers that say that area is nastier than anything else they have experienced in blue water.  One couple was telling me about it and they had sailed to the Chesapeake from South Africa by way of the horn. 

The Great Lakes can even get really nasty.  Nasty enough that I wouldn't want to be out there.

If you want some good reading and a good description of stuff that happens out there read:  http://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Serious-Ocean-Sailboats-Stories/dp/007170440X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453390841&sr=8-2&keywords=flirting+with+mermaids

I would also recommend his other book:  http://www.amazon.com/Flirting-Mermaids-Unpredictable-Sailboat-Delivery/dp/1574091646/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453390889&sr=8-1&keywords=flirting+with+mermaids

[Epic1969]

Really like the CP19 pictures. Some real good food for thought here! Yeah I'm definitely going to pick some good weather and cross Erie a couple times to get used to making the commitment. I would also like to take here up to the Geogian Bay and cruise those waters for a couple weeks. I have been thinking/reading about severe weather tactics in smaller boats in in my spare time and it is a very fascinating subject to me. Does anyone know how a CP23 would ride out breaking seas on a sea anchor?

[HideAway]

The very things that make the CP23 a great coastal cruiser would make her a poor choice for a blue water boat.  The CP23 was not designed for blue water-You would be more  comfortable  and safer in a true blue water boat.    Always use the right tool for the job as pappy used to say

[peterg]

    The very things that make the CP23 a great coastal cruiser would make her a poor choice for a blue water boat.  The CP23 was not designed for blue water-You would be more  comfortable  and safer in a true blue water boat.    Always use the right tool for the job as pappy used to say

A definite second to this opinion! My Dad said the same thing, and it has served me well.

[Potcake boy]

Epic,

The Bahamas cruise is an excellent suggestion for you.  I have a 23 pilot house and plan to make that trip myself soon. I have done a lot of cruising on small boats, and the pilot house 23 addresses most of the drawbacks of small boat cruising.  I carry 32 gallons of water, which is 25 gallon built in tank plus 7 gallon portable that feeds a cockpit shower. 12 gallons of diesel which is 7 gallon built in plus 5 gallon portable. Good for a couple days of motoring if needed.

Heads and ice have always been my biggest problem for small boat cruising.  I have a 35 qt. Engel which is adequate for most situations. It is a lot of refrigerated food, or half food half beer. I have a 50 watt solar panel which keeps the batteries up during a Florida day, and I turn the fridge off at night. Running the engine upon leaving an anchorage in the morning I charge the batteries and give the fridge a boost in cooling before I turn off the engine. Same thing in the evening. So far this has worked well for as much as a week, so I'm thinking it will also work for months at a time while cruising.  I have tried everything from porta-potties to WAG bags to the current holding tank for sanitary waste and none of these so far is really adequate. Big boats have enough capacity to go for a long time without a pump out, but you cannot accommodate a very large tank on a 23  so frequent pump outs are necessary. Unless you are staying in a marina, pump outs can be inconvenient and cause you to make special detour plans in your cruising for that purpose. Before I go for an extended cruise I plan to replace the current MSD with a composting head. I haven't had personal experience with them, but have read much of their practicality and minimal maintenance. They also do not require water which reduces the weight aboard. Waste disposal is infrequent and easy so you can cruise longer without worrying about that sh*t.

The best protection against life threatening storms is to avoid them all together. Going from Florida to the Abacos is usually a one day trip so you have the luxury of picking your weather. When the weather turns ugly, the best practice is to be anchored somewhere safe with a couple days food and entertainment aboard. Wintertime brings frequent strong winds to Southern Florida and the Abacos so you may be lying at anchor more that you'd like. A good ground tackle set up is really important. I use a 13# Rocna with 25 feet of 1/4" chain and 200' of high strength 3/8" double braid nylon rode. We were tornadoed the other night while anchored and the ground tackle held fine. Fortunately that blast of super wind lasted less than a minute because it was pretty scary. I carry a Manson racer aluminum with chain and 100' of double braid as a back up. Down here the bottom is mostly mud and sand which you can get by OK with a Danforth style anchor, but many places in the keys have grass or marl, which can be a challenge for anchoring. So far the Rocna has proved reliable.

Don't forget your dingy. You will love having it for exploring or for trips ashore in an anchorage. I have a 8 1/2'  roll up inflatable from West Marine but find it easiest to just tow it behind. I use a Honda 2hp because it is lightweight and mechanically simple. I use a kayak pump to pump out the water after rains. This size is quite adequate for my wife and me.

If you decide to trail your boat to the Keys for a cruise, check out South Dade Marina as an excellent point of departure. I have launched from that location numerous times, and Bob takes good care of you at a very reasonable cost. You can park your vehicle and trailer there for then duration and not worry about it.

All the best with your new acquisition and I hope your sailing is always safe.

Ron
23 Pilot House
Suncat
CP19
Picnic Cat
CP16
Plus a few other various monohulls and trimarans

P.S. I would think that sailing to Hawaii on a small boat would be really boring and/or terrifying so thankfully we have airplanes that are no longer terrifying for that purpose.   '-)

[Ted]

I have been thinking about taking my CP19 over to Bimini. For those of you who have done both, which is a better first step: Bimini or the Dry Tortugas? I have spent time in the Keys and also did a fair bit of sailing the Adriatic, but always within sight of land.

[hoddinr]

Going to the Dry Tortugas is a much easier passage than a Gulf Stream Crossing to the Bahamas. 
You can leave from Key West and it's only 65 NM or so as I recall.  There is no major current to correct for as there is on a passage to the Bahamas.

Leaving Key West (NW Passage Light) I did the passage in 8 hours in a Catalina 27 in 1987.  Beautiful Trip.  Got there before dark.  If you're not able to do it during daylight hours you should consider leaving at night to get there in daylight, so that the outer markers are easier to see and negotiate.

JMHO

Ron Hoddinott

[Potcake boy]

You can also anchor overnight at Marquesas Keys with your shallow draft.