Transom Question

[Brent65]

Eclipse Owners:

The only criticism I can find regarding the Eclipse is the non existing transom.  The pros of no transom seem to outweigh the cons in my mind.  Like, ease of loading gear, ease of accessing the motor and ease of accessing the water.

But, I do have a couple questions for those of you who actually sail this design. 

1-would you add a transom if you could?
2-Have any of you had waves come into the back of the boat in a following sea? 
3-Was it a little splash or complete wash over? 

I'm trying to quantify this issue in my brain, your actual experience will be very helpful. 

Brent from Idaho

[Vectordirector]

Hi Brent,

I have had my Eclipse (Hull #23) for three years and sailed it initially on Lake Geneva, WI.  This is a 5000 acre lake with lots of traffic.  It can get pretty choppy on the weekends with 3 foot wakes coming at you from all directions.  I recently moved to Punta Gorda, FL and sail on Charlotte Harbor.  Totally different conditions.  The only time I had water come in the transom was backing out of the dock on Lake Geneva into a series of 2-3ft wakes.  Yep, it ran right out.  Probably about 2 inches of water in the cockpit, not close to running into the cabin.  Just keep your stuff out of the footwell and it is fine. 
To your questions:
1.  No, I like the open transom.  I think it really depends on the type of sailing you do.  I wouldn't take the boat out into the Gulf unless the weather was forecast to be perfect.  The boat isn't fast enough to outrun a storm.
2.  I've run bow first into 3 foot wakes without issue.  Motoring or sailing down wind and down wave in those isn't an issue either.  Can't comment on anything bigger, haven't had that situation.   I'm quite sure the boat can take more than I can. 

It really seems to be a personal preference.  A lot of the newer sportboats have open transoms, racing in the ocean, and have no problems.  I like the convenience factor, really easy to get to the ladder and motor.  I don't sail in crazy weather or waves.  YMMV.

Vectordirector

[Ferd Johns]

Brent

What might come in will go out very, very quickly. Without a bridgedeck to protect the cabin, there could be a big problem, but the Eclipse has a good high bridgedeck. If sailing in enough weather to cause worry about a following sea coming aboard, one should also have hatches dogged and the companion boards in as well. I've had wet feet much more often from heavy rain or seawater splashing into the cockpits of small boats with full transoms ..... and puny cockpit drains .... than I ever expect to have with my Eclipse. To be clear, I've had no water on board from astern yet. As mentioned, the real issue is ...... gear left on the cockpit sole can definitely disappear. But it is worth it not to have to worry about a dinky cockpit drain plugged up with wet leaves, not to mention the ease of re-boarding from the water, handling the outboard, stepping ashore from a Med moor, boarding a kayak, mounting while on the trailer, etc.

Ferd

[TedStrat]

Brent
My 2cents; I've Had the Eclipse for a year and a few times in some good chop and large boat wakes - no issue. Ease of boarding from shallows etc is amazing. I haven't lost anything yet thanks to the transom boards.
I too thought about this before buying and my friend who sailed around the world and does this for a living said an open transom is actually preferred and a huge safety issue for a boat of this size. If you were ever caught and took a wave over the rails it would wash out in seconds. As the Eclipse room in the forum heading says; transoms....who needs em!

[alsantini]

Brent.  I agree with all said so far.  I have less experience since I bought hull 49 in April of 2014.  I have not had water flow in so far and I have been in a following sea on the Gulf of Mexico.  The Eclipse rises like a cork with very little if any water on the floor.  I have had a wave over the side while heeled over and was surprised at how fast it flowed out the back.  As a side note, when I am really cooking along I like standing just aft of the boom gallows, one hand on the gallows and the other on the tiller.  The noise of the water curling around the stern is fantastic.  The only negative I have found is the additional noise from the outboard.  I had my 4 hp 4 stroke on the Eclipse and on my previous boat a Precision 21.  The transom did block a bit of the noise.  It is not objectionable, just a bit louder.  The other plus is how easy it is to get to the outboard on the Eclipse.  Easy peezey.  You will not miss the transom and the pluses really outweigh the possible following sea intrusion.

[Brent65]

Thanks guys,

This has been very helpful information...nothing like hearing from those who have real life experience.  I am not longer concerned about water coming in through the stern. 

Brent

[Eagleye]

Brent,
I will also have to agree with the other post on this issue.  I absolutely have come to appreciate all the positive aspects of the open transom.  The fact that any water that does come in goes out so quickly, makes the cockpit floor a breeze to clean.  I carry a small bucket to simply wash away any debris and or beverage spills after a lunch onboard.  (I have been known to be a bit sloppy)
I have considered making some type of cargo net to catch stray equipment that might try to make a break for it out the transom but so far I have not lost anything.
-Allen

[Vectordirector]

I'll also add that when the wind pipes up over about 15 knots and the boat becomes more than I'm comfortable in, I'll roll up the jib.  If it continues for more than about 10 minutes I'll think about heading in.  I so far, haven't reefed the boat so I just head in if it becomes more work than I want to do.  If I feel I can't make it in, and I haven't been there yet, I'll drop the main and the anchor and ride it out.  Then head in when I fee it is safe.  That's all I got.  For now.

I found the front of the reefing line the other day so I may try that too.  Arthur and Al say it works well.  Might help to stay out in a blow till I can get in.  The storms that blow up around here in summer should be interesting.  I was able to get in before one on Lake Geneva.  I am a National Weather Service Certified Observer, so I can usually see them coming long before most people.  I could see them in the control tower in Kansas City (MCI) from at least 40 miles.  That should give me at least 30 minutes to get in.  We'll see.


Vectordirector

[skip1930]

I would not sail this boat without having a full and complete cockpit surrounding me. I don't have a death wish ...

skip.

[alsantini]

Care to elaborate Skip?

[Vectordirector]

Skip,

While I always respect your experience and  opinion and you have given many here fabulous information over the years, I have to respectfully disagree with your post.  The boat, like any boat, airplane, car, or truck, is perfectly suited for the conditions it was meant to be used in.  Meaning, fairly calm water in winds under 25 knots.  The owners I have talked with agree.  It is not an off- shore boat.  It is not a racing boat meant to be pushed hard.  It is a relaxing day sailor that is remarkably easy to tow, rig and sail,   It is stout, built very well, and any water that comes in, goes right out.  Can it be overpowered?  Absolutely.  Is it unsafe?  Any boat/car/truck/airplane can be unsafe if attempted to operate outside its design parameters. (Mutiny, and it's sinking, being the best example lately) Simple fix?  Don't do that.  You're smarter that that, Skip.  

Take one out sometime.  You will probably find that it sails much like a 19, the centerboard allowing it to point better.  With the added convenience of easy access to the motor, ladder and rudder.  I've been out when 30 knot gusts with 3 foot waves on Lake Geneva kicked up out of nowhere and never felt unsafe.  I did head in though as the wife was turning green.  She actually tied a life jacket to her purse.  Wasn't necessary, but it made her feel better.  I learned a lot about what the boat, and I, could take that day.  For now, it is the perfect boat for me and the waters I sail in.  Will that change?  Maybe.  It is all about having the right tool for the job.  You don't fly a J3 Piper Cub across the atlantic.  You don't sail an Eclipse across the atlantic either.  Unless you are insane.  Or Charles Lindbergh.

Vectordirector

[FlyingTulip]

How about something shorter than the Atlantic but longer than a day-sail?  Could you imagine or have any Eclipse owners spent time (4-6 hours) in 15-20kts . . . not really fearing for life or death, but just annoyed you can't park the boat and catch your breath?  Any stories about heaving-to?

[Eagleye]

Flying Tulip,

Last summer I did exactly that in my Eclipse.  I was out by myself on a lake in upstate NY.  The winds were a steady 20kts with gusts.  I sailed for 3 hours with full sails on a beam to broad reach making about 2 mile tacks across the lake.  Found a cove to toss the anchor, take a swim and have lunch.  Tacked into the wind for the return trip...another 3 hours.  The Madame and I became quite comfortable  at a 25 – 30 degree heel.  Twice a gust took her up to 45 degrees where she rounded up like a champ.  There is no question that it is a very busy sail in those winds, but why did I stay out so long under those conditions?   Because I was having the time of my life and loving every minute of it!!

-Allen

[TedStrat]

Skip I'm relatively new to the Compac world - only owned the Eclipse only for just over a year now so I have only 1 season under my belt. I have enjoyed many of your posts and learned a lot but I have respectively disagree and must weigh in here, despite my limited experience.

I sailed a lot last summer and fall and one day, with 15-20kt winds and a gust to 23 with and 75 degree air/70 degree water, I called my wife and said let's go for a late afternoon sail and see how Helios handles in heavy air. My story that day almost mirrors Allen's post about his sail on Madame with some exceptions; 1) I didn't anchor, 2) I didn't stop for lunch and swim, 3) I only sailed for a few hours and 4) I rescued a 35' sloop who's sail had cut loose in the winds and Engine died and I towed him in to the dock....all WITH AN ECLIPSE. In fact, I sent an email to Gerry Hutchins to tell him the story and it is now on Compac's web page - pull it up and read it.

It was a great sail that day in Huntington Bay. We did heel hard in a big gust and rounded up hard. Lori looked at me with a scared look which lasted 3 seconds and was replaced by a chuckle and a "wow".  We Never felt worried and never even got feet wet.

Point is, I've been on the water my whole life and have great respect for mother ocean and Mother Nature but I feel very confident now sailing the Eclipse when day sailers stay home and, no, I don't have a death wish. I love life, and I love the Eclipse. I will sail to Block next year and am also planning a trip to the Chesapeake next fall... Not the Atlantic crossing, but respectable.

Come for a sail one day - I promise I won't kill you ;-)

[Bob23]

I think you guys pretty much nailed it: Sailing the right boat for the conditions is the key.
   My only experience in an Eclipse was sitting in Allen's at a BBB 2013. She was anchored (using Allen's spotless custom stainless anchor) and 4 or 5 of us were hanging out in the cockpit doing our best to decrease the surplus beer. Because of all that weight aft, the bay water was coming in a bit and cooling off our feet. That was nice. I didn't get a chance to sail her but hopefully at the epic BBB 2015, I will. I was pleasantly surprise at how much room there was in this boat.
   As a small aside: Vector: Love the comment of your wife tying the life jacket to her purse! What is it with women and their purses? They treat them like little life support systems and how in the world do they fit all that stuff in there?
   Bob23