Changing my Compac 23D to Horizion cat rig

[cw021382]

Hi guys,

I was thinking about ways to make my 23 more trailer sailor than trailerable sailboat.  Lets face it, the 23 is a pain to setup and takedown.  I was looking at the compac website and seen that the Horizion cat is ready to launch in under 5 minutes.  I thought I could do that to my 23.  The mast would mount thru the vent in the v berth.  I could fabricate a boom gallows on the pushpit.  Then I started researching on the internet and bam there it was.




Keith, at The Sailboat Company, has already done the conversion.  I had a nice long talk with him on the phone today, and he filled me in on the conversion.  For my use he said that the conversion makes sense.  He also said that the converted 23 probably sails better than the HC.  I could use a small jib if I wanted to but it's not necessary.  He seemed to really like the HC setup on the 23.  Also the mast is the same spar as is used on the HC, just cut down on the HC.  So I could use my mast and my boom for the gaff.  That means I just need to buy a HC sail and boom.  I would also need a mastender hinge and any blocks and running rigging I need.  On The Sailboat Company website he quotes about 6000 for the conversion.  I think I could do it myself for about 3000.  Since I would like new sails anyway that is not bad.  The HC sail is the most expensive part at 2000.  Thanks again to Keith if he is reading this.

Advantages:

1.  Ready to sail in a few minutes.  So I would use the boat a lot more.  Especially single handed.
2.  Only 3 stays to contend with, and no spreaders. 
3.  Opens up the side decks for moving forward
4.  The longer boom makes the mainsheet angle vertical increasing headroom at the rear of the cockpit.
5.  Quickly depowered by scandalizing the gaff
6.  Mast is easily lowered on the water
7.  I think the Gaff rigged sloop is Pretty with a capital P, and fits well with the traditional look of the 23.  Is that a rhyme?

Disadvantages:

1.  Large sail to reef easily
2.  Lines to trip on crossing the foredeck
3.  Some loss of foot room in the v-berth.  From my observations this would not be the case.
4.  Long boom that sweeps the entire boat.
5.  Restricted access to the bowsprit?

What do you guys think?  Also, to you HC guys, what do you like and dislike about the rig? 

-Chris

[BruceW]

I think it's a great idea.

Actually, you can do something like it in two steps:

I got Keith to cut my Slipper 17 mast, install the hinge and the tabernacle for the stub. I had my own arch, and I sailed it as an easier to step sloop rig. That could be step one for you. Some changes to how the shrouds are connected would help. This way, I just kept the same sail plan.

Step two would be cutting the top of the mast and adding the gaff. I wouldn't bother with that personally, but if you want that HC sail, you could do it. With this, you might have to cut the HC sail to fit your shorter boom, though.

Of course if you are going to re-position the mast stub forward, that makes it a bigger, one step job. Either way, yep, it's been done, and seemed to work great. Keith was going to try to get me to change my rig to gaff if I needed the mast to be shorter, but I never did that part of the change.

At this point, I keep the 23 in the water, and don't trailer it anywhere, so I don't have the need. If I made it more trailerable, I'd really consider at least doing the mastender and tabernacle part of the project.

[Bob23]

pretty cool idea.
   While I haven't toyed with this particular change, I have thought about adding a mini pilothouse to the cabintop. It would be tight on my 23 because of the mast location and boom vang, but on this gaff rig conversion, it would be much easier. I'm not talking about a full pilothouse like the PH23, just a mini to gain some headroom. 
   I like the traditional look of the gaff rig but I bet the 8 stay rig on the 23 is far stronger. I keep my 23 moored, so no need to make it really trailerable. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
Bob23

[cw021382]

Bruce,

Stepping the mast is not a problem for me.  I bolt it to the mast step then stand on the top step inside the companionway and just lift it up.  Granted I am a very strong guy, but it still takes so much time to rig and unrig for travel that sailing for a day is more work than fun.  I am new to the boat but I have rigged and unrigged it several times in my driveway, and I know I need to make some changes or buy a 16 to day sail.

Does something about that sound familiar Bob?  I could buy a very nice restored 16 for the cost of the conversion. 

I was thinking about a hardtop dodger with boom gallows on top, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  One thing at a time. 

As far as the HC conversion is concerned, the more I study the picture the more I think it is of the HC to 23 conversion Keith did where he left the mast step in it's original location.  He has converted it to the catboat location, but I don't think this is the picture.  Anyway, I think Keith is right about leaving the halyards at the mast.  It would make for a cleaner boat and would eliminate any trip hazard on the foredeck.  I was thinking about building a small 6-7 foot pram and carrying it on the foredeck.  I am not sure that would work with this setup.  I will have to do some measuring.  Anyone else carry a small hard dink on the foredeck?

You are right about the strength of the eight stays on the 23.  I want to cruise this boat to the Bahamas so strength is a concern, but other than a 1-2 month cruise in the summer the boat will be trailer sailed.  I could leave it on the lake all season, but I am close to the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, and 3-4 other good size lakes.  I think quick rigging is more important to me than ultimate strength.  Besides I could upsize the stays and chainplates one size. 

I think changing the rig will allow me to use and enjoy the boat much more, but I need to think it through and make sure it is not a mistake.  Anyone know where I could source a HC sail cheaper than $2000 clams?

[relamb]

For another option look at the mast base and gallows that were on my former compac 23.
http://midtechv.com/wp3/?easy-photo-album=1989-compac-233-sailboat-sale
A prior owner installed this, and it worked great.  I only had to undo the forestay to lay down the mast, there were quick release tensioners in the aftmost sidestays.   I could be sailing within 20 minutes of arriving at the ramp if two people were setting up the boat.  The gallows could be removed with 4 screws, although I left it on most of the time.
I have purchased a hinged mast base for my CP27 and will be doing it soon, with the intent of being able to raise the mast myself instead of hiring a crane.
I will be using the ballenger MB30 http://ballengerspars.com/photos/hmbm30.jpg

[BruceW]

It is awesome to leave the boom and sail on with the mast lowered separately. That's the main rigging benefit I found with mastender. Less to undo-redo.

[cw021382]

Wow Rick did you really trailer your 23 with that much mast overhanging the transom?  The quick release forward lowers are a good idea.  Still the HC rig is much less work and much quicker. 
-Chris

[blighhigh]

I have a Horizon Cat and was interested in putting a small jib on the rig.  I talked with a naval architect in St. Pete who felt that the addition of a jib to the rig would give too much lee helm.  From a historical basis catboat have had light wind jibs for use in those frequently calm summer days.  I think that leaving a jib up on a catboat rig with heavier wind is asking for trouble.

[capt_nemo]

cw021382 & blighhigh,

First, I think you should seriously consider the rig modification to a gaff headed sloop!

Why are you so concerned with lines led aft as trip hazards on the foredeck, especially if you are singlehanding?

For your dinghy consider building the 6' version of the Portuguese Dinghy from FREE Plans found here http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy1/simboii.htm

STRONGLY DISAGREE with naval architect regarding addition of a jib. The headsails I've added to my Sun Cat (same rig as HC) have definitely improved performance, especially in light air. Consider making the small jib or Drifter out of Nylon and set it "flying". AND, use common sense and good judgment to douse headsails in heavy winds or when not needed to augment the main'sl.

The rig can easily be strengthened by doubling up on head stay/staysail stay/baby stay and shrouds like I did to strengthen the upper mast for masthead headsails. My DIY rig mod with 4' bowsprit is quite strong indeed. And, all the mods were made WITHOUT DRILLING A SINGLE HOLE IN THE BOAT OR ALTERING THE BOAT'S STRUCTURE IN ANY PERMANENT WAY.  When additions are removed, the boat can be returned to "Factory" configuration!

Here are a few photos that speak volumes.

capt_nemo

[cw021382]

Hello Capt_Nemo,

That is one pretty boat you got there.  Those gaff rigs sure are nice to look at, cat or sloop.  I would not think about putting a gaff rig on a precision, but I think it really fits the design of the 23. 

I am not really as concerned about running lines aft as my post makes it sound.  Keith mentioned he prefers to leave the lines on the mast because it is just as easy and makes the rig more simple.  The foredeck of the 23 is larger than the SC or HC, and I thought that when going forward to anchor or whatever that the lines might be a trip hazard.  I think that was more of an imagined problem than real, but any lines at trip height on a boat bother me.  I am really leaning toward the conversion, but I want to give myself plenty of time to discover any major reason not to do it.  I think I will call Hutchins next week and see what their thoughts are on the idea.  If for some reason I don't like the conversion I could always put the old rig back on.  I would just need to buy a new mast section, and sell the HC sail and boom.  I could put a nice stainless dorade vent over the enlarged former vent hole.  No worries eh?

-Chris
 

[Craig]

Great idea Chris! I saw that setup on the Sailboat Company website quite sometime ago and love it! The gaff rig just looks perfect on the 23. I assume you will keep the jib as shown like Capt Nemo suggests since you have the forestay triangle available and it will make the swap easier. Will give you the best of both worlds and not add much to your setup time. The modern gaff rig is almost as efficient as the Marconi and very flexible with a low CE. An ideal cruising rig. An unqualified DO IT!

[cw021382]

Hi Craig, 

Since you have a HC could you tell me how long the boom and gaff are?  Also, do you find the rig easy to handle?  Do you have any complaints about the rig?

Thanks,

Chris

[relamb]

Wow Rick did you really trailer your 23 with that much mast overhanging the transom?  The quick release forward lowers are a good idea.  Still the HC rig is much less work and much quicker. 
-Chris

Yes, I trailered the boat over 6000 miles from NC to indianapolis to FL to the Upper peninsula of Michigan one year, always with the mast sticking out the back.  The prior owner even trailered it 100 miles with the sails still on it, that way.  I at least took the sails off.

[Craig]

I have not measured either Chris but I make the boom to be about 16' and the gaff to be about 11'.

[brackish]

For another option look at the mast base and gallows that were on my former compac 23.
http://midtechv.com/wp3/?easy-photo-album=1989-compac-233-sailboat-sale
A prior owner installed this, and it worked great.  I only had to undo the forestay to lay down the mast, there were quick release tensioners in the aftmost sidestays.   I could be sailing within 20 minutes of arriving at the ramp if two people were setting up the boat.  The gallows could be removed with 4 screws, although I left it on most of the time.
I have purchased a hinged mast base for my CP27 and will be doing it soon, with the intent of being able to raise the mast myself instead of hiring a crane.
I will be using the ballenger MB30 http://ballengerspars.com/photos/hmbm30.jpg

What quick tensioners were on your 23?  Johnson heavy duty?  I have been thinking of adding quick lever tensioners to my forward lowers and my back stay to speed up the mast raising/lowering but somehow was left with the impression they were not robust enough for the job on a 23.  Be good to know of a rig that has worked.