Changing my Compac 23D to Horizion cat rig

[relamb]

I no longer have the boat, there may be some close up pictures in the album.  I didn't buy or install them, but they look just like these Johnson Calibrated Quick Release Lever  http://www.apsltd.com/c-6558-halyard-stay-highfield-and-other-levers.aspx.  They worked just fine.  The only hassle with laying the mast back was getting the forestay unpinned underneath the furler drum.  I had to loosen the bobstay turnbuckle quite a bit.  If I had kept the boat I was seriously considering a quick release on the bobstay.

[cw021382]

I spoke with Gerry Hutchins this morning, and he thought that the HC rig would not be enough sail area for the 23.  He said that it was conservative even for the 20' HC by design.  I guess that is why Keith is flying a jib.  The size of the rig would also be a problem.  I would need at least an 18' boom to reach a boom gallows if I mount the mast cat style thru the forward vent.  I could up size the rig by 20% giving me the added sail area and boom length I need, but that would require a custom main, boom, gaff, and rigging.  The gaff would be 13' long.  I think a sail that large would be a handful. 

I don't think I should try to reinvent the wheel.  What I thought would be a fairly simple conversion is now becoming complex.  For now I am going to just enjoy the boat as is and try to make her current setup quicker to rig.  I guess that means no gaff vs Bermuda rig race.  Sorry Bob.  On the upside if the wind is on the nose for the race I will have a chance.

Chris

[Craig]

Chris, Like Capt Nemo and I suggested, go with the rig from the Sailboat Store. Keith knows of what he speaks. Converting to a catboat rig probably not be a good idea for all the reasons cited. BUT, you could get the Mastender system and the ease of setup you are looking for and have a great setup essentially using your current mast location. The boom on the HC rig is no problem and the sail is not a handful...I singlehand a lot. I think Keith just used the standard HC rig....sail, boom and gaff plus a jib .Just a thought.

[kickingbug1]

    with all this talk, i cant wait for the clr next july. ever since i started this thing i have felt enriched by the people who have attended. this fact appears will go on for some time. in regards to the gaff-rig on a 23, it may look great (very traditional given the sweet shear line of the 23) but it might just hinder sailing performance which to my mind is unacceptable.

[blighhigh]

Why not sell your boat and buy a Horizon Cat?  Capt. Nemo's boat is for sale  giving you a nice Suncat with the easy to rig main plus a jib.

[cw021382]

I can't get this idea out of my head.  You guys know how it is when an idea gets hold of you.  Here is a fairly to scale drawing of what I would like to do.  I have been reading up on gaff rigs a lot, and I think that a short gaff, cat rig would be the way to go.  I could still fly a small jib if I wanted, but the fore triangle would be smaller than the conversion Keith did.  He placed the mast just forward of the cabin trunk, and used a standard HC rig with a P15 jib.  Thus making a gaff rigged sloop.  I want to place the mast 2-3' further forward thru the forward vent hole.  The way I understand it a short gaff rig with a longer luff is a better sailor especially to windward, and it also makes the gaff easier to raise and reduces weight aloft.  I figure the center of effort would be about the same as the standard rig, and the sail area at 265 vs 286 (main and 155) should be very comparable. 

Blighhigh I like the HC, but prefer the layout of the 23.  Also, a comparable used HC on a new trailer with diesel engine would cost 4 times what I would have in the 23 after the conversion.  Do you guys think this conversion would ruin the resale value of the boat?  Maybe a better question is how many 23 owners trailer sail vs keeping  the boat in the water. 

[brackish]

If you gotta you gotta, but I want a race with my sloop rig when you are done.  Standard race course that has all points of sail.  Bet you'll do great on the run but not so sure beam reach and close hauled beat will be your friend.

I keep my boat in the water all the time now, but plan to tow more in the future to try out new areas.  I too am interested in making the boat more set up friendly but I think there is a lot I can do to help with that without spending big bucks to change to a rig that I think will diminish overall performance.  My mast raising system only takes about 10-15 minutes to set up and use, it is all that other stuff.  Plan to work on that in the future.

Change the mast step to this to avoid having to pull the pivot bolt. 



Add some type of permanent but unobtrusive gallows that has a roller on it to facilitate the push forward once the mast is down.  That would include a roller that fits in the same mast step as pictured above that just drops in set to the right height and one that quick connects to the bow pulpit.  I've got them now but it takes about ten minutes each to bolt on, stern and bow. 

Some lever shroud tensioners on the forward lowers and backstay to quicken the release and retension (that is a very time consuming process with turnbuckles)

Labeled and preset straps to stabilize the rig for travel. 

Think I can get it down to 30-40 minutes for a few hundred bucks, still not Mastender speed but a lot better than current state.

I used to do continuous improvement process projects, and after doing a half dozen or so mast raisings and lowerings and prepping for travel, I know it is fertile ground for a huge time and effort reduction.

[cw021382]

The lines are not as nice, but it still looks pretty good and has standing headroom.  Wheel steering in the PH and tiller in the cockpit.  Boom gallows and traveler mounted on top of the pilothouse.  Mid boom sheeting would completely free up the cockpit.  I think this would be a great trailerable motorsailer.  Just throwing the idea out there.

[Shawn]

Hinge the mast above the boom and it would fold down with the boom and be nearly the same length. Space it right and the sail and gaff could be left on for quicker setup.

With the mid boom sheeting have the sheet be a double ended control. One end inside the PH and the other run to back near the tiller. That way you could control the main from either helm.

Shawn

[cw021382]

Shawn, I am glad you still visit cpyoa even though you sold your 23.  Not a bad idea on the double ended sheeting.  I would indeed use the mastender hinge on the rig.  Ultra quick setup is my main priority.  Setup time would be like the HC, under 5 minutes. 

[Bob23]

Chris:
  I'm sure you're aware of the Compac 23 Pilothouse but have you sat on one? While I haven't, I have seen them and looked at various photos and it seems that visibility from the cockpit is severly hindered. But I like the quick setup train of thought in your ideas here. My 23 takes so long to set up that I don't even consider trailer sailing. But it wouldn't be out of the question. I'd just need to streamline the operation a bit and my first step would be to follow in Brack's footsteps, as he's written below. Some great ideas there, Brack.
  In general, your idea of the HC rig on the 23 is really good. I too like the layout of the 23 and, if you were into some major interior work, you'd no longer be limited by the structural bulkhead- it could be removed and/or altered to suit your needs. I toyed with a C- shaped structural bulkhead on paper a while back that would allow one side of the boat to be completely open ala Flicka style.
  This is an interesting thread...
Bob23

[HeaveToo]

The idea of the quick release stays is intriguing. 

I made a wooden bracket with a roller on it.  I tie it in place at the back of the cockpit and put the mast on it when I am getting ready to step the mast.  Then I grab the bottom of the mast and roll it until I get the bottom of the mast in place. 

I think a cool modification would be something similar to what hunter does with the mainsheet.  Have an arch on the back of the boat where the mainsheet would attach.  It would have a traveler.  When you put the mast down you move the block out of the way for the mainsheet and slide on a roller bracket for the mast to rest on.  You could also use it as the back support for a bimini.