79 cp 16 interior needs help

[Pacman]

I noticed right away that someone had cut the old compression post out. My guess is that it was cut out because it was rotten. I am currently looking at, investigating ideas, and brainstorming about alternative compression post builds. I don't love the original center placement of the of the 16s. But, with that being said my mind always wanders astray when I begin tackling a problem.

As long as the compression post in directly below the mast to will transfer the load to the keel with almost no load on your cabin top.

[Tim]

Yes, pacman, this I will do. I'm starting to get to the heart of some problem areas.
It looks like there is a wood frame where the compression post use to be.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3i-WHdj2iuVRy13Y2JxQmsxUUU/view?usp=sharing

[Tim Gardner]

Took a look, noted a couple of things:


You have a nice little project for the winter.  Ther's several guys here that have done EXACTLY what you are in for.  Make sure you replace the bow eye backing plate, that's your link to trailer sailing nightmares if it pulls out.

$0.02  TG

[Tim]

TG, thanks for pointing out the holes for the compression post. Since the post was missing when I purchased her, it was hard to tell if that was the original purpose of those holes. I also don't have another CP16 to look at and compare pieces and parts. When I was plowing through my Pearson 26 project I had access to a few in my boatyard to compare with.

Thanks for the advice about the backing plate. I'm re-bedding all the hardware on the boat with G10...my favorite backing plate material.

Tim

[Citroen/Dave]

I would love to remove some of the concrete from the keel of my C16. If I had a damaged C16 with rotted concrete, I would jump at a chance to modify the ballast. Added depth for feet in the cabin foot-well is very desirable, it makes sitting more tolerable for longer periods of time.  The porti pot becomes more user friendly. I would also like to re-locate a battery or two for increased storage space, elsewhere.  I would replace some of the concrete with poured lead, wheel weights, batteries, iron pigs or what ever, at the lowest spot possible to replace the now missing weight of concrete: not as much weight would be needed to get the correct righting moment with the new ballast lower in the keel. In addition, she would float higher and/or carry more cargo. Many people like a slight forward weight distribution to balance out crew weight and remove some of the weather helm; that could be accomplished as well.

I'm not sure I would take out or replace all the concrete because I don't know how much impact strength the keel derives from that mass of concrete. Nor would I add more total righting moment; that might stress the old standing rigging too much even though one could "out sail" other C16's in a stiff breeze. Of course one could check out or improve the standing rigging to handle the additional stress . . .

[nies]

Just a thought, I would call Hutches before changing the keel weight or level of weight in the boat...............the 16 was designed that way for a reason..........but I am Mister Caution ...........................nies

[hinmo]

OT alittle:

rotted concrete

you all scare me with the concrete issues. I have seen some wetness in my "bilge" at times. Boat sails well, what other symptoms? you're all making me nervous!

[Cats Paw]

Concrete/Bilge issues: Project "RU-ACH"

The fiberglass mat seal over the surface of the bilge was torn away and rendering its purpose null. From the prospective of a neglected boat water than migrated down into the keel between the concrete and fiberglass. It was obvious that the cabin was flooded  and holding water at one time by the appearance of a water mark toward the forward  area. The top layers of the concrete were broken away and loose more likely to due to freeze and thaw cycles here in the north. The outer surface are of the bilge side plates were specked with blisters and boils. I than open a few relief hole for water to drain. I found also the the fiberglass on the side plates were weak and brittle and lost its structural integrity because of water penetration with the freeze and thaws.  That prompted me to peel away those outer side plates and restore. Prior to the restoration I allowed the concrete in the keel to vent and dry out.  To move the project along i kept in place a work lamp in position to warm the concrete to help draw out the final amount of moisture.  Pictures  under Topic the forum topic "Mission Complete" can be viewed.  I had to float in at the top of the bilge #80 of high strength concrete to replace the broken and loose. Prior to  the application of the new concrete to the existing I used applied a bonding agent for maximum adhesion. After a week of curing time I than poured a thickened epoxy around the seam of concrete an fiberglass in the bilge to penetrate and migrate into the keel area. Than I sealed over the bilge with a layer of fiberglass mat followed primer and paint by two clear coats of epoxy extended up the walls of the bilge that support the cabin floor and bunks.

[Citroen/Dave]

Northern boats must have a dry concrete bilge through the winter, if stored outside, or the freeze/thaw cycle will crumble the concrete and possibly distort and crack the fiberglass keel. 

My thoughts on replacing a portion of damaged concrete with a lowered, denser material to gain foot space in the cabin sole is not really a rebalancing of the boat. It is just being more conservative of the buoyance and the space on the boat. 

[Tim]

Citroen/Dave, I am with you in your thinking about changing over the ballast material. I just started my CP16 project so I am only
beginning to contemplate some of these larger projects. I will say though, at this point I keep getting myself deeper into the project.
After digging up and out an inch of crappy cement from my keel I decided I was going to get radical.

I ended up cutting out the soggy wood forward in the v-berth area. It was a real pain to work in that small space so I decided to take
off the rub rail and see how the 5200 looked (you can see where this is going). Although there were no visible signs of water coming through this joint,
once the rub rail was off it was apparent that the seam was compromised. I could see light coming through in several places from within the cabin.

At this point I had two choices: 1. dig out the seem and rebed the seam w/ 5200 or epoxy or 2. completely separate the hull and deck and
put a new fresh seal on her. I decided to go with option 2 mostly because of the aforementioned reason of struggling to make repairs in such a
small space. With the cabin off it will be much easier to replace the interior wood and work on this ballast issue.

I am thinking of next digging out the old concrete and making a plan to add new ballast material.

[Bob23]

Tim: This is turning into quite an undertaking. You're into it now big time...no turning back! That's a great photo...just begs for a caption.
Bob23

[Cats Paw]

I can see that it will be a fine boat after completed.   Another CP-16 Saved

[Salty19]

The idea of removing the concrete and adding epoxy-encapsulated lead ballast is pretty cool.
You could end up with a lighter load to tow, better righting movement, a little more storage and foot room.

A battery box with keel bulkheads could be added into the keel as well for even more space savings, and to reduce cost of lead.

Let me know if you do this; I can probably help with ballast calculations if you provide me measurements.

[kickingbug1]

   that would be sweet to have all the weight at the keels lowest point. i imagine 450 lbs wont be necessary

[Cats Paw]

Consideration:

If all the ballast weight were to be moved south in the keel  I would consider placing stringers/cross bulkheads in the voids in the upper area of the keel to give structural integrity. It is possible otherwise that lateral stress may pivot / hinge the keel from the bottom of the hull form and cause failure not so say what might occur with a hard grounding.
For example with your CP-16 resting with the weight firmly on the keel bottom lift and and down a bit on the deck joint midships. Lower one trailer bunk if need be to allow some clearance. You will notice some flexing at the area of the hull keel intersection. I think it would be much more extreme without the cabin structures.