rudder bushings

[Rob]

I was just looking at some of the pics in this post and some thing stood out to me . That is the pivot bolts are upside down ,The head of the bolt should allways be on top that way if the nut falls off the bolt wont fall out .Just thought id add my 2 cents .

[kickingbug1]

   im gonna follow bobs advice with the addition of two nuts on the bolts. thanks again buddy

[nicktulloh]

   im gonna follow bobs advice with the addition of two nuts on the bolts. thanks again buddy

Instead of two nuts use nylocs or, if you're really concerned, drill them and safety wire them.

[JBC]

Have been following this discussion about bushings/bolts and nuts, knowing that I have never worried about them much with the 3 CP16s I've owned.  Since I trailer sail my boats, I generally take off the rudder assembly and throw it in the cabin when not sailing.  I use 3" bronze (or brass, not certain) bolts with round heads and holes drilled through the other ends, with jump rings, cotter pins, etc, to keep 'em from falling out.  There are no washers, spacers, nuts to screw on, etc.  Simply never noticed an issue, whether using the standard blade or an Ida Sailor blade. 

Maybe I'm missing something, but for a 16' boat, I sort of regard the rudder attachment as an overbuilt assembly (for which I'm happy) perfectly suited to the task.  I think this discussion about washers and nuts applies best to to those rudders using bolts and nuts that are tightened up as Skip's great photos show.  In a larger boat I can certainly see the advantage of those arrangements, but my simple rig works, well, simply!

Jett

[skip1930]

Fear not young Weedhopper, I still like my nuts up.
I can simply look~see over the stern and if the threads showing start to disappear, I know things are loosing up.
Has not happened for around four seasons. Still tight enough to 'park the tiller' where I left it in easy seas.

skip.

[kickingbug1]

   yeah, im gonna go with the lockers---think i have a few already   thanks

[kickingbug1]

     only thing i changed was i drilled the holes out to 3/8s not half inch and used 1/4 inch bolts. i think its plenty strong for a cp16. ill let you know if it wasnt the next time i sail.

[NAY]

  kickingbug    I like the bolts to be long enough so there are no threads in contact with the bushings
   
   NAY

[Rob]

Weedhopper writes once more ,In the area I work that is on heavy aircraft the rule  is heads up and anything that rotates has a chaselated nut and cotter pin installed .Any hardware that turns even a little bit will come loose after a while .Bottom line is for me if my nuts fall off Ill still be hold a tiller in my hand and not trying to find it in the bottom of the lake .

[jtravies]

The 1/2" x 7/8" bronze shoulder bushings interior diameter (ID) is 3/8" ?
means, bolts are 3/8" right?

[skip1930]

That's funny. Don't forget to put all electrics on one side of the wheel wells and the liquids on the otherside. Plus since hydraulic oil usually runs down hill, put the electrics above the hydraulics to limit contact. Don't fly inverted very long.

You may have seen it on the news...An 80 year old women lands plane....I work at the Door County Aeroport and last week Helen become the P.I.C. after her 81 year old husband vapor locked and died while in flight. At first sign of his troubles he called Helen up to the front righthand seat. She was sleeping in the back seats.

The twin she was handling is usually very heavy on the controls and it didn't help that John's body was draped over the yoke. After 40 minutes of flight, learning to fly the beast, she ran out the fuel on the starboard engine [Always lift to the dead engine, forget about the rudder.] and on approach the port engine quit.  The next maneuver will be a landing. She made a great landing. The first touch broke off the nose wheel and returning to the tarmac after a 50 foot high bounce the nose grazed the tarmac, the still turning props chopped through the tarmac and the plane veered left off the runway, knocking away one runway landing light, [which I replaced today], plowed through my grass, slowing the plane down to a complete stop. No fire, no nothing. Slight compression in her back. The planes main spar is twisted, engines bent off the engine mounts, twin engine eight passenger Cessna 414 plane is scrap. Cost more to fix then to replace,

John was a very nice man who flew both Murrock boys to Colorado so each could learn to live in their wheel chairs, one year apart. If your sons are racing 4 wheelers in the dirt, don't let them.

"The 1/2" o.s.[drilled bore] x 7/8" [long] bronze oil light shoulder bushings interior diameter (ID) is 3/8" ? means, bolts are 3/8" right?"  Don't know I forget. I think it's bigger. It is what it is. It's in your hand buy a bolt that slips in it. Stout enough.

skip.

[Pacman]

if my nuts fall off Ill still be hold a tiller in my hand and not trying to find it in the bottom of the lake .

Rob,

That makes sense.  

I had a Catalina 22 that had its rudder attached by fixed pins that pointed down from the the rudder so the rudder hung in its place (as if bolts were used with no nuts).  It had a flat spring clip to hold it down so it would not come off unless the spring was depressed to allow the rudder to be removed.

That set up seemed ok until one day when I was crossing a bar and a powerboat wake caused the boat to rise and then fall when it passed.  The rudder hit the bar and came off but I held on the tiller so it was not lost.

That was when I began using a small diameter line to tie it on as a safety measure in case I ever had a similar grounding happen again.

Now I am thinking of using an idea I saw on an antique cat boat that had the rudder attached using a single rod with nuts and cotter pins at top and bottom instead of using two separate bolts.

The rod was about 6" longer than the distance between the pintles so, if the rudder grounded on a swell, the rudder would simply ride up on the rod.  

That way, no load would be transferred to the transom and the gudgeons and pintles would not risk damage from the impact.

If I do that, I will use castelated nuts and cotter pins,

[skip1930]

Pacman says,  " If I do that, I will use castelated nuts and cotter pins,"

That's a good idea. Use ss cotterpins or wire with the castelated nuts.
O`Henry Ford used castelated nuts pinned on everthing he designed.
From all his cars before the Model 'T' and Model 'A' and beyond to 1938.
He realized that everything that rattled off was genuine Ford Parts. And the public knew it too.
Additionally like little puppies, old Fords leave little puddles whereever they park.
Which is why he used 600 locomotive oil, 'cause that did not leak past the felt seals.

Anyway the one rod idea is OK as long as both bores in the casting on the transom are lined up and don't stress the aluminium.
Since I bolt my kick-up down I worry a little bit about a swell lifting and slamming the rudder down on the hard, only to tear up something on the transom.
Well can't prevent all disasters. So don't worry about anything you can't do nothing about. Ice in the bird baths today. But sunny Sunday.

Happy Easter, skip.

[Rob]

Pac man that is a good ideal about the longer rod replacing the bolts ,So good that today while getting the Jolly Rio ready for her slip today thought Id give her a look.It wont work on my 16 because theres only a inch of clearance going up before it hits the rubber bumber ,so Ill just let the blade fold back .Some other things Ive done to my rudder are cut a v notch aft of the pivot on the blade so it will rise higher out of the water.All so I installed line on the leading edge of the blade so I can pull the blade down in place .Right now I use a lite line that will break if it hits something , I want to install a break away cleat from Duckworks .I don't use the pinch lever on the pivot it just never hit me as OK to clamp down on the blade.Thanks once more for the ideal Iam allways looking for things to do to in prove my boat .Nows the time while shes in the garage ,Time on the water is so specail