rudder bushings

[kickingbug1]

    i probably should have taken care of this little problem during the winter but alas other things came up. anyway like all sailboats my cp 16 has a "loosey goosey" rudder. my question is does the mount have to be removed from the transom to install bronze bushings? and what size bushings have others used for this repair?

[kickingbug1]

    hey, i found an old post on the subject so all is well. thanks to those guys

[Pacman]

After your bronze bushings have been replaced you might want to put some HDPE washers between the gudgeons and pintles when you remount the rudder.

I made mine by cutting small discs from the lid of a plastic bucket and it made the rudder even smoother.

Best of all, they were virtually free.

[skip1930]

The ACE HARDWARE bronze shoulder bushings, back to back are 'OilLite' and require zero lube since the they come oil impregnated for life. [If heated with a tourch, they will parcipatate oil and smoke like a banchie.]

~No, remove nothing off the transom.
~You'll need a 3/8" electric drill and a 1/2" bit that has a turned down shank for a 3/8" drill motor, as a 1/2" drill motor won't let you bore a straight hole.
~Drill a 1/2" hole clean through each leg of the aluminum casting. You'll end up drilling out the plastic factory HDPE inserts...if any are left.
~Lightly pound in 4- 1/2" x 7/8" bronze shoulder bushings so they are back to back with shoulder to shoulder contact.
~That's the bearing surface. Carries all the weight. Moment of bend and moment of torque.
~Buy 2 ss bolts that fit the bushing's bore, the right length.
~Buy 4 ss washers, and 2 ss nuts, just for fun brush on some Permatex Never~sease when you drop in the bolts.
~ I assemble nuts up 'cause if I see the threads disappearing, I know something is loosing up. But you select the orientation you like.
~Crank the nuts down till you feel some drag. When I let go of my tiller it generally stays where I put it in calm seas.
~And put the rudder casting on top-O-the transom casting.
~I guess you could flip-flop that, but that puts the tiller really low on the cockpit combing. And the rudder way down past the keel.
~I also hold my kick-up rudder down with a snowblower shear-bolt. The aquadic weeds in my harbor can kick her up.
~And lastly I have a wood screw under the tiller, between the wood and casting, that I can crank the business end of the tiller up a bit for my comfort.

About $18.00 for parts.

skip.

[Spartan]

Skip

Nice pictures, have you painted your rudder components?  They look good.
If so what kind of paint have you used.

Thanks
Tom

[skip1930]

Spartan asks, "...have you painted your rudder components?

Yes, I unbolted then heated and beat with a rubber mallet this aluminium casting off the hull that the 3-M 5200 sealer around the 4~1/4" holes was holding.
Vapor blasted the castings spotless with glass beads. Down to 'white metal'.
Washed the castings in a seven stage industrial gas fired, power spray washer, appling an aluminium conversion coat to the castings with finial R/O water rinse. No water spots.
Into the Dry-Off oven at 250 degrees F. for seven minutes.
Did not paint these castings the first time around the paintline. But ran the castings through the cure oven at 550 degrees F. to de-gas the aluminium castings.
Conveyed them back to the start again. Let them cool for a few hours.
Hung them and painted them in the powder booth with a Fuller O`Brian hammertone grey powder paint. A epoxy polyester blended UV resistant formula for outdoor furniture. Don't want to end up with a chalky finish.
Cured the powder coat in the cure oven at 350 degrees F. for 20 minutes. Tested the cure with 100 double wipes using a swab and MEK. All OK.

The reason for the de-gas is so the gases trapped inside the castings escape before painting. Otherwise the gases bubble up and out of the aluminium destroying the P-coat gloss surface.

Put it back together with bushings and new 3-M 5200. The 'divits' are in the factory castings. After painting, waxed her up with Mother's Wax which I never really dug out of the divits so they look white.

skip.

[NAY]

   As per previous post concerning a 16 cp I used 1/4 inch bushings. Total of 8, four on top and 4 on the bottom

  I think using a 1/2 bit is removing to much material and instead used a 3/8 bit with 1/4 inch shoulder bushings. I sailed yesterday in north Perdido Bay with 2 1/2 ft. seas and 15 + winds and was very pleased with rudder feel and response. I was able to let Not-a-Yacht-a roll up on her side and let the wind tickle her belly and still had good rudder feed back.

  Easy fix with a very good result. If you use shoulder bushings you don' need washers.

Buddy           

[Bob23]

Tom:
   I don't have access to all the cool equiptment that Skip has, so I painted mine with Rustoleum Bronze over zinc chromate primer after sanding the aluminum and an acetone wipe down. It's held up pretty good...in salt water, no less.

bob23

[kickingbug1]

 thanks for the help fellas

[Pacman]

    If you use shoulder bushings you don' need washers.           

Great idea! 

My home made HDPE washers reveal my "frugal" approach and work very well but shoulder bushings are an elegant solution.

[skip1930]

nay said,..."If you use shoulder bushings you don't need washers."

The washers are for under the bolt's hex and for under the nuts. Not 'tween the shoulders of bushings.
Just to be clear. It's all about spreading out the load and not pinching the gudgeons together...castings don't bend.

..."3/8 bit with 1/4 inch shoulder bushings..." so the diameter of the bolt is what? 1/4" ? That's .025" x 10,000 lb [ the ultimate strength of typical steel. Makes no difference if it's black iron or stainless steel ] divided by a safety factor of 4 = 625 lb to shear these 1/4" bolts.

If you can't hold the pintle in a 1/2" bore with bushings in the gudgeons, your not going to hold the pintles with a 3/8 bore and bushing either.

skip.

[Spartan]

Thanks for the explanation Skip, definitely look good, sounds like some rocket science

Bob23 - a more pratical solution for me as well

[skip1930]

Bob23 look at the depth of your rudder.

Does it hang down below the keel? And for that balanced feel of 'power steering', some of the leading edge needs to protrude ahead of the pintel and under the wine glass shape of the hull.

The top`O rudder is very close to the hull on mine. I have no idea if any of this makes a difference. It is what it is.

skip.

[Pacman]

Bob23 look at the depth of your rudder.

Does it hang down below the keel?

I noticed that the original rudder on my 1976 hangs several inches below the depth of my keel while the ones on later C 16s are about even with the depth of the keel.

The longer rudder acts as a "bottom feeler" and, when it begins to touch bottom and kick back a bit, I know that it is time to tack away from the shoal before my keel touches bottom.

That crude "early warning system" would not work with a later shorter rudder blade.

That's why I like the longer older rudder blade on my 16.

[Bob23]

Pac:
   In speaking with Rich Hutchins a few weeks ago, he pointed out the same advantage of having a longer rudder. Mine is about 10" deeper than the keel and he assured me that it is original factory equipment.
Skip: I built my wood foil with about 2 inches forward of the original leading edge of the aluminum. But I also removed the gudgeon and reinstalled it over a 5/8" plywood pad with the back routed out to accept a downhaul line. You can kinda see it in the picture. All in all, the new foil works great but I would build the next one as you suggest: I'd have the leading edge forward of the line of the transom. But I did use the bronze bushings thas skip refers to, got 'em at Lowe's and with nylon washers between, I've eliminated lotsa friction. Last year, I added zincs because I sail in salt water. I already bought one new gudgeon for the boat.
bob23