NACA-0014 Rudder Modification Underway

[DOUG142]

Has anyone had a STALL out problem with their rudder?  Other than the stock flat blade??
Thanks Mike C for offering the 0012.  I am just glad others including yourself, Mike G, Bob23, and others are making their boats handle better by doing the foil upgrade.

Remember also, you can make a very inexpensive roller furler also.
Doug

[nies]

purchased a Ida, best thing I ever bought, but if you stall out the NACA design it is hard to correct, with the old spade rudder you could horse the boat out of the stall, even propel the boat forward by pumping rudder back and forth , I guess nothing is perfect........still the improvement in sailing ability far out weigh any draw backs.............Phil

[Bob23]

Doug:
   Thanks to you for the foil and to Mike Greene and others for the inspiration. Or do I mean perspiration? Both. I plan to take this to the next level by experimenting with a more plumb rudder and moving even more of the body forward while narrowing the width of the blade. I'll have to measure mine but I know it came out wider than I planned. My gut feelings are that because of the increased wetted area, a little weather helm still remains.
    I just got the recent issue of "Good Old Boat" magazine and Shazam! what do you think is inside? An article on rudder design by Robert Perry. I haven't read the entire article thorougly yet but he does discuss rudder area. One mention is that rudder area should be 1.4% of sail area. Hmmm....now we are gettin' scientific, eh?
    Sometimes, one can overanylize stuff and forget about why we are here: to enjoy sailing and being on the water. The reason I don't formally race is that I don't want to start to define sailing in terms of winning/loosing and minutes and seconds. Another reason is that I don't like to loose but I probably would loose alot.
   Does any of this make sense?

Bob23
 

[newt]

Thank you, you guys are great!

[Salty19]

Doug- No stalling issues on the NACA0012, on both the 16 and 19.  Very responsive, a light helm feel, and if there just a little forward movement, tacking has not been an issue.  No, wait, I recall having to jibe once on the 16 with the 0012 because of lack of steerage.  The winds had died to nothing so boat movement was limited.  Before the foiled rudder and new sails, forced jibing was an everyday occurance on the 16. 

Every compac owner should not just "consider" the modification, but simply do it!

[newt]

I have been reading alot about design- and Lecture said the fatter the rudder  the less likely it is to stall in slow water, but the higher the drag. So I am considering designs from 0010 to 0030.  Your experience with 0012 and 14 in encouraging, I just want to see some data before I dive in.

[Bob23]

   Iv'e had the same experience as Salty. My 23 definitely tacks better, points higher and I have yet to stall. The boat, that is. Part of the performance problems I have is due to my blown out mainsail but it's not in the budget yet to replace it. But, following the governments lead, I may throw the budget to the wind, so to speak, and just buy it.
   Newt: Data, schmata. Repeat after me: "I need a foiled rudder...I need a foiled rudder...I need a foiled rudder." That's it, see how easy it is? Seriously, you will wonder how you ever sailed without it. If I were closer, we could build a wood one. So far, no wear problems despite 2 times touching bottom. The next one may be longer and narrower. I might experiment with prototypes made with plywood, ground and sanded to the correct shape and painted, just to try out different shapes without committing so much time and money as my wood one consumed. But, hey, Koinonia is worth it.
Bob23

[TeamSlacker]

Finally got out on the water with the foil rudder this weekend. All I can say is, read all the other comments above and my experience is the same. If you're on the fence just do it, noticable improvement.

The big things I noticed in the couple hours on the water:

-tiller effort is less (power steering)
-it was a bit gusty yesterday, with the stock flat blade, when you were close hauled and you'd get hit with a gust and not let out the main, the boat would heel over to the rail, it would take almost both hands to hold the tiller and fight it from turning into the wind, which would cause the stock blade to start braking more than steering, you'd slow down and be forced to point into the wind basically. Now with the foil, the rail dips in, hold the tiller with one hand and keep it on course, watch the gps and you accelerate and can hold that course and speed. awesome
-seems to be pointing much better into the wind. I have some gps plots with the stock blade and will have to compare them to plots with the foil, but I think I deleted some of my track yesterday so might have to wait till next time. I seem to recall previous days on this lake, taking a half dozen tacks to get back to the upwind side of the lake, where yesterday it was only 2 or 3.

No regrets from this guy spending the time or money building it.

[DOUG142]

Wow!
What a recommendation for having a foil rudder.  Love it!!!!
Great.  What more can we all say?  Just do it.  If you need help, ask.

Doug142

[gabi]

ok guys,
you convinced me i NEED the foiled rudder, it looks a prety easy diy project
the most challenging for me would be to make the wooden leading edge, other than that i did some fiberglass projects before and i dont mind it.
now for the template, would anybody still willing to share the template with me?, im thinking to do the 0012
thank you
Gabriel

[Greene]

I will be building my third foiled rudder.  I have done a CP16 and a 19, now I will do the Com-Pac 23/3 as well.  I can't think of a single better improvement to these boats than foiling their rudders.  I just wish I could make one as beautiful as Bob's. 

Mike

[Bob23]

PLEASE:
  If this continues, I won't be able to get my head of the cabin! Seriously, and I've said this before: I could not have even started my rudder project without the help of so many fellow boat nuts here at the site. All I did was take Doug142's template, apply my appitude for over complication, spend some hard earned bucks and hours and, Voila! A blade. I'd love to interchange it with a factory foiled rudder as a comparison test.
  Mike: Best of luck with your new "Wrinkles". Keep us posted!
bob23

[Smier]

You guys have inspired me to do this, but I have a couple of questions.  I am planning to do the foam core wrapped in fiberglass method for ease, time, and cost factors.  However:
1. What type of adhesives did you use to attach the foam to the stock aluminum rudder blade?

2.  Any issues with the fiberglass resin cracking where it meets the aluminum rudder blade?  I ask this for two reasons, I'm concerned about keeping this mod from failing due to water infiltration, but I am also contemplating a change in design(see question #3)

3.  Instead of building a wooden leading edge, why not shrink the foil shape to the size of the factory rudder blade, hot wire cut my foam to the width of the rudder blade, thereby using the aluminum rudder blade as my protection in the event of a rudder strike?  I'm assuming that no matter how it's constructed, that with any rudder strike I would be looking at some possible damage and repair to the coating.  It seems to me from everything I've been reading is that it's the foil shape that makes the difference, I would in essence end up with a foiled rudder in the same dimension(length and width) as the factory Compac rudder.  Thoughts or concerns?

Thanks in advance, I love this site, so much great info!

[NateD]

3.  Instead of building a wooden leading edge, why not shrink the foil shape to the size of the factory rudder blade, hot wire cut my foam to the width of the rudder blade, thereby using the aluminum rudder blade as my protection in the event of a rudder strike?  I'm assuming that no matter how it's constructed, that with any rudder strike I would be looking at some possible damage and repair to the coating.  It seems to me from everything I've been reading is that it's the foil shape that makes the difference, I would in essence end up with a foiled rudder in the same dimension(length and width) as the factory Compac rudder.  Thoughts or concerns?

Part of the "balanced' feeling of the foiled rudders is because surface area is added forward of the leading edge of the stock blade. Creating a foil that is the same width (12") as the stock blade will help overall, it won't have as light of a feel as a foil that extends forward.

I did my rudder with foam/fiberglass without any kind of other protection for the leading edge. I went aground on a sand bar last week while motoring at about 4-5mph. The keel hit first, but the rudder took enough of a blow to rotate it up a bit. When I examined the rudder afterward I lost some bottom paint from the bottom of the rudder, but no dings or crushed areas. It would probably be different hitting rock or coral, but this was only the second time I've hit ground in 5 years, so I'm not too concerned about grounding damage.

[Smier]

Good to know!  Maybe I'll just cut the whole thing from foam and worry about repairs if/when I damage it, it's not like I plan on running aground...  If I'm going to do it all, I want to get the best possible results, I just know that I'll never take the time to carve out the wooden piece some have used for the leading edge of theirs.  Any thought on adhesives for the aluminum to foam bond?