Proper installation of deck hardware

[JustStartin]

I'm looking to run all my lines aft to the cockpit next spring.  By doing this, I'll be installing halyard blocks, a deck organizer, a cheek block, a few fairleads, and rope clutches.  My question is how to properly mount these items to the top deck.  Should I thru-bolt them?  I plan on using 5200.

Thanks in advance!

[Craig Weis]

JustStartin asks " Should I thru-bolt them?  I plan on using 5200, " And make the 3-M 5200 the SLOW SET formula.  Not the fast set formula.

Yes. Use a backing plate as well for the rope clutch and deck organizers. Acorn nuts. Full complement of correct washers as well. Look at the factory way and duplicate that.
skip.

[kchunk]

I agree. Here's an article I found on Sailnet too. It's a How-to on running lines aft on a 46 footer. It makes running the lines aft on our little Com-Pacs look like a walk in the park!

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/19941-leading-sail-control-lines-aft.html

--Greg

[JustStartin]

I agree. Here's an article I found on Sailnet too. It's a How-to on running lines aft on a 46 footer. It makes running the lines aft on our little Com-Pacs look like a walk in the park!

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/19941-leading-sail-control-lines-aft.html

--Greg

Thanks Chunk for the article.  One question I have though is what is a trim plate?  They state, "If like us, you have a non-removable headliner, you'll have to drill or cut holes through it to secure the backing plates and nuts. But don't worry, you can make a trim plate to cover the holes, and no one will ever notice. In fact, it's quite common for boats to have trim plates covering the backing plates of their deck hardware."

Any idea?

[kchunk]

I imagine a trim plate is some sort of decorative trim to cover the hardware. On my 23, I have stainless capnuts on the ceiling. It's not terribly unattractive. I suppose I could conceal the hardware behind trim, but then again, my little Com-Pac isn't a 46' yacht that costs 6 figures, so seeing the capnuts doesn't really bother me much...

--Greg

[HideAway]

In an additional article about bedding they recommend 3M 101 a polysulfide bedding compound.   The concern is that the 5200 is more of an adhesive designed for things like hull to topside joints.   Removing something bonded with 5200 is very hard and according to the article the 5200 may pull off the gel coat!   the 3M101 they go on to state will last 20 years but you can re bed the fitting if necessary.--- clik on the link in the original article about drilling holes -   Matt

[Craig Weis]

Regards to 3-M 5200 slow set:
I found when I took my rudder casting off the back of my Com Pac 19 for pre-treatment, powder coating, and bushings, that I still needed to heat the casting and transom with the paint stripping gun to 160 deg F. [too hot to touch] and using my rubber hammer beat that casting off the fiberglass.
When it cooled a bit simply roll the goop off with your finger. Clean as a whistle, as they say.

The only thing holding the casting on to the transom after the bolts were out, was a smushed flat 1/2 inch ring of 3-M 5200 under each of the 4~1/4 inch bolts.

Yes an adhesive and sealer rolled into one. I don't think I needed these bolts at all. But who would buy the boat with no bolts? I'd be stupid enough to drill holes in through the fiberglass transom and put bolts in.

Com Pac's typically do not have a Gel coat as a first layer in the female mold. "So 5200 may pull off the gel coat!" May be incorrect.

When I shooting Dune Buggy bodies in high school For Sand Pounders, Inc. in Palatine, Illinois the first layer in the mold was a clear gel coat. Then a metal flake color layer, then a black layer to fill in between the colored flakes, and finally a chop gun layer for strength and thickness. Three days later pop her free of the mold and trim her up, $500 please. We also did the more desirable cut on the VW floor pans, thus saving the front seat tracks.

skip.

[bmiller]

I would not use 5200. In fact when replacing/rebuilding the hatches on Pooka I used WM multi caulk. Not that I'm recommending any WM product but for anything on the cabin top I'd use something you could remove, just in case.

[adifferentdrummer]

3M4200 is usually available on the shelf right next to the 5200. It's basically the same product, but designed to be less of an adhesive and therefore easier to remove if need be. I found mine in the little boating section at Wallyworld. I've heard tell of another good one called BoatLife Caulk. Whatever you use, make sure it is marine grade stuff and not something intended for use on your house.

Milt

[nies]

Milt, over the years I have used it all.....after trying to remove a door/casing from a cabin rehab that had been silicone caulked in place, had to use saws-all to get it out, decided to use GE silicone II on boat.....adheres, seals, and easy to use and remove if need be.Used BoatLife Caulk and it hardened like cement over time and was not a easy task to remove, would never use again, I thought because its name was "BoatLife" it had to be good......Phil

[Craig Weis]

Hummmmmm, I'm thinking a good installation won't have to be removed.
So I'm still in favor of 3-M 5200 slow set. I mean I don't do a lot of adding of things to the boat, and I only removed the rudder casting because a pre-treatment, drying, degassing, powder coat, cure, and cool was available to me where I worked.

skip.

[nies]

Skip, as usual you are right, but nothing lasts forever and since our CP's have a very long life , sooner or later repairs ,etc will need to be made.....Phil

[Bob23]

Sometimes stuff has to be removed as in the case of grabrails, sliding hatch guides, etc. I like to remove my teak completely to refinish so bedding compound is my choice. Everything is completely removable and it seals well. When I remove the rudder casting this fall, I'll reinstall that with 5200...or maybe 4200. The plan for the casting is to have it and the rudder head drilled out, bronze bushings installed (thanks, Skip) and grease fittings installed. Yeah, you heard me right. I had grease fittings on the ball joints and tie rod ends of my old 1987 Toyota pickup...280,000 miles and replaced nary a one. Should work well on our boats.
Bob23

[nies]

Bob, you may want to think about self lube bushings..........Phil

[Craig Weis]

Hol-up-dar partner. This...See the two pictures in my Frappr link below.

"The plan for the casting is to have it and the rudder head drilled out, bronze bushings installed (thanks, Skip) and grease fittings installed."

The removal of the transom mounted rudder casting had best be re-thunk, me thinks.
A 1/2" twist drill and a cordless 1/2" will do the job without removal. I know. I did just that.

NOTE: The factory has put into the holes  plastic bushings that will drill out when the twist drill is run through the casting.

1~Don't need to *R&R the rudder casting just to drill out the holes in her. Can do that on the boat, even in the water!
2~Any Ace Hardware can fix you up with 4~1/2" o.s. x ? i.s. x 7/8" long flanged Oilight bushings or Bronze bushings. I went bronze.
3~The flanges [shoulders] go face to face with out any flat washers. Bronze on bronze. Nothing better. And replaceable.
4~The ss bolts: with two flat washers and one lock washer under both nylock nuts and bolt heads.
4.5~I put my nuts up so I can see the threads if these loosen up. I should feel any looseness in the tiller as well.
5~The assembly is snugged up to provide friction at the tiller. And no slop.
6~Everything is goop-ed up with NeverSease [sp] from Permatex during assembly.
7~The 2 sets of shoulders raise the whole rudder and tiller up about a 1/4"+. A higher tiller is better. A shorter rudder is better too. Draws less.
8~For comfort a wood screw can be screwed into the underside of the tiller on the casting tiller stop, and backed out to raise the tiller up higher off the transom on my 19.
9~I'm not sure about zerk fittings.
My hardware cost was $14.85 plus something for the crooks. [Why is it, tax is never enough?]

* Remove and Replace
skip.