New 16 Owner

[Rebmilc]

Hello All

This is dry Tech stuff not really my thing.  I figure that though's who were answering Demanon questions would like to know that the info went to good use.

I just purchased Demanon's Compact 16.  Some of you have been answering some questions he had about fixing his Keel and Scuppers.   I have been reading your suggestions and used them to do the repairs.   Though it is not finished yet  we are 90% there.   Here is what was done, did I miss anything?

1-Ground down to concrete an area 3 times the original bad repair.   It ended up about 4  inches by 18 inches cleaned the area with denatured alcohol.

2-Beveled area large than repair to allow fiberglass a good adhesion surface.  This ended up being about 10 inches by 26 inches.

3- checked the rest of hull for any problem areas.  Though non were as bad as the original hole  I found 3 other spots to grind down to concrete.

4- I drilled 8 3/4 inch holes down the bottom of the keel to allow for draining.

5- I left the whole thing with a fan and small heater on it for a week.  Warm not hot so that you can easily touch it.

6- To my surprise the whole thing seemed dry at this time.  I used a slow set epoxy and varying weights of cloths to cover the repair starting at  24 oz and ending with about 12 oz.   I did 2 layers a day so it would not over heat and ended up  with 5 layers.

7- Sanded it all down so no sharp edges or lumps.

8- I am going to fill the bottom holes with some epoxy and silica as well as using this as an outer layer for the repairs so it sands better.

I will post the pics online and ad a link later.

The scuppers on the boat do not leak so no need of repair.


Thanks All Mike

[Paul]

Mike:

Welcome to the forum! 

Sounds like you did a good job on the repair.  Used caution and patience.  About point #8:  Silica is very tough to sand.  Easier than raw fiberglass, yes.  But, next in line regarding toughness.  If you fill the holes with a syringe and tape a small piece of plastic over the holes, then at least the surface will be smooth.  Plastic will not bond to the epoxy as long as it is very smooth.  I use sheet plastic.  If you are real concerned about the fairness of the repairs, you can fill just shy of the top of the hole with THICK epoxy.  Gravity works afterall.    When that kicks, fill the remaining amount with fairing material like microballoons.  This is much easier to sand than the silica.  But, remember, you need to seal this really well with neat epoxy and/or barrier coating.  I'd consider similar treatment of the patches, too.

Good luck with the rest of the repair.  Looking forward to the photos.

[Rebmilc]

Hello Paul

I figured the Silica would be more water proof than micros and stronger than pure Epoxy.   You are right about it being hard to sand but Dremels rule for this kind of work.  You were right on plan with the syringe I made one out of an old marker a long bolt and some foam.    I figured to save the Micro balloons for just before I paint it.

Mike

[Paul]

Yes, that definitely works, too.  Keep us posted.

Oh, about the syringe, I used one from West System.  But, you could use one from a pharmacy if it's big enough.  I made the silica epoxy mix thick enough so it wouldn't drip too much.  Peanut butter thick, as they say.  Then taped a little plastic in place.  Worked great.  Hope yours works out.  I've filled my allotment of photos in the gallery, so I don't have a handy photo of the finished work. 

[Rebmilc]

Hello Paul

Well the holes were dry today so why put off for tomorrow what you can mess up today.  I actually found a pastry cone at Big lots for 2 bucks and it worked like a charm.  I filled the holes with Silica and Epoxy like peanut butter.  Then when that dried out I did another coating of peanut butter thick silica and epoxy.  It looks ok and should be quite bomber hope the whole thing floats. I am planing on putting it in the water on Sunday hope I did not miss anything.

Mike

[Paul]

Great to hear!  Good luck splashing her. 

[Craig Weis]

Drilling 8~ 3/4 inch holes...? In what the concreate. So you drilled through the fiberglass on the bottom flat part of the keel under the boat. And continued to drill into the concrete. Heating and drying the concrete to be filled with epoxy and silica mix.

Did water escape through these openings? Was there rust that dribbled out? As the mix from the factory is both concrete and black iron [pig iron/mild steel] dumped into the mold.

Can also mix up some West System two part epoxy with some thickener and jam it up in there then tape it off till it stays put. Sand her smooth and call it quits.

I confess I cut a pattern the shape of the keel bottom on my C-P 19 and glued on a 6 mm 5383 marine aluminum 'KEELBOOT' plate that will act as a scuff plate over the rocks I usually manage to sail above.

I have pictures of the KEELBOOT on the Frappr link below. skip.

[Rebmilc]

Hello Skip and Paul and every one else.

To answer skips questions:  When I drilled it only a dribble of water came out.  If you read the earlier messages you would note that I was doing these repairs to fix a dollar sized hole in the keel so water was expected.  There was no rust in the water and scrap metal was no ware to be seen.  I did as you say tape and epoxy adding silica for thickening and to make stronger.  Then I added a second  thick Layer of silca and epoxy as a skid plate on top of that.  I like the idea of a keel boot and may make one using Epoxy and Kevlar.  I have done this before for White water canoes and kayaks and it works great.


I went out to a lake near me on Sunday it was rainy and not a lot of wind but what the heck, it was a test.  I found out a couple interesting things I will ask about at the bottom.  The boat was in the water and seemed not to take on any water.   I know there was no water below deck because I let my friend sail a while and went bellow and took a nap.   Unfortunately when I went to take my boat out the the tongue on my trailer was bent rather bad.  I had left it in a parking lot and it looks like someone ran into it.   Oh well just another project. 

Two Questions for a Compact 16 owner.

One:  when I put my boat in a small amount of water appears below deck about a cup.  I can not seem to figure where it is coming from. 

Two: When I am motoring about 3 Knots a good amount of water comes in my scuppers.  I was thinking about putting in a one way flow valve or making one has anyone done this?


Hey thanks for the support and interest.

Mike

[romei]

Two Questions for a Compact 16 owner.

One:  when I put my boat in a small amount of water appears below deck about a cup.  I can not seem to figure where it is coming from. 

Two: When I am motoring about 3 Knots a good amount of water comes in my scuppers.  I was thinking about putting in a one way flow valve or making one has anyone done this?

1.  To find the leak.... I'd start with a completely dry boat and a small person in the cabin, and back it in so that about a foot of the boat is in the water.  Leave it there for about a minute while the person inside is attentively looking towards the rear for the leak.  A small person can crawl back in both sides head first and feel around.  After a minute, I'd go another foot and stop for a minute or so etc... and continue the process until the leak is found.

2.  When bought my boat, it came with two plugs, the kind you see in an old bathroom sink, with a piece of fishing line between them.  When I'm sailing by myself, I leave the plugs in the cabin and I don't get any water in, but when I have at least one other adult, water comes in so I put the plugs in and it keeps the water out.


Hope it helps :-D

[Deb]

Howdy Y'all,
Have to put my two wet feet in...
I recently heard the most interesting story of a man who bought a new boat...he sailed and sailed and was amazed at how dry the entire bilge stayed... He was so happy he called the manufacturer and relayed his amazement.  The manufacturer hearing this said "OH My! Bring her right back...we can fix that!!" 
Rebmilc.....it's a tough one..water finds a way .......
                sorry to hear bout you trailer...that's crummy.
  Finding a good trailer repair shop can be hard...I found a bad one in TN if anyone ever wants a non-recommendation.
  Romei.. that's a neat idea of the bathtub plugs...I'm gonna try it too.
  Deb

[Paul]

Hi All:

Thought I'd chime in.  There was a discussion a while back on plugging scuppers.  Folks either do so consistently or don't.  50/50 chance, huh? 

Also, about that same time, was a discussion on leaking scupper tubes.

So, what you could do is reach into the aft section of the cabin where the scupper drains lurk.  Very easy if you have access ports from the cockpit.  Otherwise, someone will need to crawl back there.  Make sure all is dry.  Sprinkle some powder back there.  Then wet the cockpit with a garden hose, so that the water drains from the scuppers.  After that, peek into the aft section of the cabin again to see if the powder has a trail of water.  That way you'll know if one or the other scupper is leaking.  If no, then check again when backing down the ramp.

Regarding the scupper issue when motoring.  Try balancing the boat fore and aft.  I'm about 175# and can cause the same effect if I'm sitting aft.  When I sit forward and can still hold the tiller or throttle, it's not such a problem.

Oh and I'm assuming you are finding the water in the cabin in the aft section.  Should have asked where in the cabin you are finding the water.  If it's elsewhere, then something else is going on entirely.  There is a small bulkhead at the foot of the bunks which separates the aft section from the bunks.  Unless that area is filled with water, you won't see it move around the cabin.  Whew!  Thank goodness. 

IMHO, the plugs are simply a band-aid.  Such a repair to the scupper tubes and/or replacing the scupper flaps is easily do-able.  Let us know what you  find.

[Rebmilc]

Hello to All

The water is on the floor of the cabin between the berths and a very small amount. Just enough to get the floor wet and not puddle so no big deal.  Since this seems to be only happening during the launch and it dries up after that it is more of a point of interest than anything else.   There is an ever so small leak in the scuppers but I can fix that with no problems last owner sealed with silicon instead of 5200. 

On here maiden voyage she sailed really well and the motor works great.   She is a dream to get on and off trailer.   My worst fear from listening to all the other owners is that she would be terrible sailing up wind.  However that did not prove to be the case, sure she is no race boat but  she seemed capable of 30deg or a little less which is  all I would ask of a little boat like this.  All in all I am extremely happy with her.

Mike

[Paul]

Glad to hear the leak isn't as bad as it could be.  I like the idea of using a little powder to find the trace trails of leaks.  It works anywhere the powder sticks.

Yes, she is no race boat.  But, she's a fine boat if you know what to expect.  None of us are surprised you're so happy with her.

IMHO, silicone is the anathema of the boating world.  5200 is overkill, unless you really want it to never move.  My preference is polysulfide.  It comes in different colors, adheres (but not tenaciously), and seals well.  If you want to remove it, you can, without loosing your religion at the same time.   

Curse that blasted silicone $^$%&*.  Anyway, good luck in the fix. 

[Rebmilc]

Yo Paul and all

I am starting to think that this is condensation not a leak.  Does anyone else have anything like this happening? 

Mike

[Paul]

Warm humid air in a boat resting is cool water.......well, certainly possible.