Ever wonder what's really inside the CP 16?

[Rick Evans]

Three days ago I brought my "new" 1977 CP 16 home.  I thought she had just lain under a north Texas pecan tree the past 10 years or so.  If that's all that had happened, I wouldn't be in half the trouble I am now.  Turns out the hatch had been opened and for the last so many years, the interior had basically been one huge swamp type bathtub.  No wonder there weren't any cushions.  When I finally got below, I found that that the side berths were completely rotted out.  So, I pulled out wet, matted, decayed plywood only to find something that looks like a huge, petrified dinosaur dropping.  It was that hard, brittle type foam used back in the 70's.  That's the stuff under your berth although it doesn't fill it the entire way.  There's quite a bid of dead space, too.  The fiberglass floor came loss once the berths were removed.  The floor is basically just a U shaped pan running fore & aft.  When it came out, I found concrete under it.  Lots of concrete.  It also had started to crumble and break apart so I had to use a shovel to remove quite a bit of it.  The bulwark which holds the compression post under the mast had rotten through, too, of course.  As had the wooden floor under the bow.  Basically, I ripped out the entire inside of the CP 16 and got down to concrete and green colored, very thickly woven fiberglass.  I took a hose and just blasted it all out, nice & clean.  This week new concrete will go in and I'll start the process of rebuilding the berths but with a little twist.  If anybody is interest in any photos of this mess, I'll be happy to post them.  Now you can see why I bought this little girl so inexpensively.  This will be a true labor of love.  

The sails sat in this mess.  Guess how they look.  Can anybody tell me where I can find new ones?

[Craig]

Rick,

Sails can be had at any loft.  One word of warning.  The factory site has listed the P (luff on the main sail) as 16.25 and it is really 15.25.  If you deal with a local loft take the old main with you to get the measurement right.

If you can sew Sail Rite makes kits.  Much cheaper.

Craig

[Rick Evans]

Thanks Craig, I appreciate the sail size info.  I was confused by different sizes I saw posted at different web sites by sailmakers.  I wish I had a main to take in.  What's left of it after sitting underwater for 8 years or so is basically nothing.  So, I measured the mast track and the boom thinking that would give me an idea but your reply gave me more specific info.  Thanks again.

[Rick Evans]

Thanks Craig, I appreciate the sail size info.  I was confused by different sizes I saw posted at different web sites by sailmakers.  I wish I had a main to take in.  What's left of it after sitting underwater for 8 years or so is basically nothing.  So, I measured the mast track and the boom thinking that would give me an idea but your reply gave me more specific info.  Thanks again.

[bro t]

Hi Rick,
your description of the condition is really serious!   But I'm glad you're not losing heart... the 16 is such a fine boat, you'll enjoy it for many years, and appreciate that you've restored it!  I just had a thought that the hollow sound is very likely to be either water damage to the glass, or to the concrete behind the glass.  Have you considered that you might be well off to pull the rub rail and examine the joint there?  with that much water for that long, if that needs fixing up, why not just take the deck right off?  I have worked on a lot of equipment over the years, and sometimes the biggest part of the repair battle is accessing and assessing what needs repair.  By removing the deck, you'll save days in your interior restoration.  You'll maybe decide to completely remove the concrete so you can fully assess the hull.  Your project is huge, but I would suggest that this boat is worthy of a first-class restoration, and with that much standing water, a complete overhaul would pay you back in the LONG run, though maybe more cost up front.  Also, I read one guy put a lead ballast into a cp19, same weight but lower center of gravity.  All these options would be available to you once you really did a thorough tear-down.  You should really chronicle and photograph this project, as it might be a real help to others wanting to do the same thing.  I look forward to hearing more about your "long journey to the water".  Take care, fair winds..........
bro t. from Upwest Maine

[dreamchaser]

HI Rick,

I too have a 1977 CP-16, in just about as bad of shape,due to be
refurbished this winter. She, the SEAHEART was severly neglected for about 10 years. I loaned her to my brother-in-law, don't ever do that to anything you might ever want to use again. I do have a main, jib and 150
genny, good enough for patterns.

I lived in the Austin-San Antonio area for about 20 years, sailed some on
Canyon Lake, but mainly Lake Travis, before retiring to Rockport,TX
I sail a CP23 LAGNIAPPE now, that keeps me plenty busy.

I will be in San Antonio on December 4, for a conference an could bring the sails along if you would like to borrow them for a pattern. There are some sail lofts on Lake Travis that do good work, The original sails were
made by Johnson Sails, in Clearwater, Fl.

E-mail me at donperry1@charter.net, or call @(361)729-5305 or send a private message on this forum

Don Perry
DREAMCHASER

[CaptK]

Hi Rick -

I'll make a spot for you and your boat over in the Photo Gallery under the owners pages. You can chronicle your restoration there. Looking forward to see those pictures...

Congrats on the new old boat! This may sound funny, but you have a great opportunity there - I kind of wish I could gut my 23, and rebuild her just so...

[multimedia_smith]

I totally agree with the previous posts about taking the deck off.  Both for ease of access and to have the complete confidence in that joint for future peace of mind.

There is a photo gallery of a deck attachment restoration which will inspire you... that boat came out beautifully... red hull... I can't find the link right now, but someone else may have it handy.
I also love the idea of doing a lead ballast for a lower CG with the same weight.  I remember hearing somewhere that the weight was somewhat forward (with a hollow area toward the rear of the keel).
You won't be needing sails right away... but I just got a new set (full batten main and 155 genoa for a good price and they work great.  You might want to check out Dirk... He HAS the current spec as he remade my main at no charge after finding the error in the factory spec...

Their quote is as follows:
Mainsail - 4oz dacron, standard battens, 1 reef, slugs on luff, rope foot, standard headboard - $270    
155% genoa - 3oz dacron, hanks on luff - $174
National Sail Supply (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)
14042 Marquette Blvd.
Fort Myers, FL 33905
http://www.nationalsail.com/
Toll Free (within US) 1-800-611-3823
Outside US 239-693-1896
Fax 239-693-5504

Best of luck ...we'll be following the story with great interest.\
These projects can't be approached from any kind of quantifiable perspective... there is simply an intrinsic value and satisfaction that comes from the process.  You are sure to have years of pleasure to come from the work.
Fair Winds
Dale

[Craig]

Michael Quigley restored a CP 16.  His pictorial chronicle is at:
http://intranet.quigley.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=restoration

Michael repaired the hull to deck joint but I don't think he actually separated the two.

Craig

[Rick Evans]

Capt K, how do I download my photos to chronicle the restoration of Sweet Laraine (she has a name now).   I've actually kept a diary of the project for those tempted to do the same one day.  I'd be happy to post photos for anyone insane enough to want to restore another homeless CP16.

   I've decided not to remove the deck from the hull.  It's "do-able" but would add another dimension entirely to the project.  Although it would definitely make the interior restoration so much easier, I'm not sure the savings in time would offset the effort required to remove and then reattach the deck.  Not that getting around inside is all that easy.  This morning I braved claustrophobia and went head first down both berths with paintbrush in hand to apply the first coat of a good topside paint.  I know a roller and extension handle would have been easier but it wouldn't have allowed me to get into the nooks & crannies of the bilge.  At 6'2' and 230 pounds, this wasn't the easiest job in the world but it wasn't as bad as I thought.  Of course, the paint fumes doubtlessly resulted in profound brain damage but I doubt my wife will notice the difference in me anyway.  

    I appreciate all of you hints and suggestions and offers to lend me your sails so I can take accurate measurements for replacements.  I think I've got the exact size now and will be placing my order for new canvas shortly.  

    I'm trying multiple experiments to restore the hull gloss ranging from sandpaper, rubbing compound and wax to Poli Glo to paint.  I'll let you know what I have found to be the best.  Even Johnson's Future Acrylic floor wax is in the running.

[CaptK]

Rick -

Are you using a digital camera, or have you scanned the photo's so that they are on your computer? If so...

Go to the Gallery, and register there (you can use the same user name and password as what you use here at the Forum). Once registered, log in and go to the Owners Pages section - I already made you a spot there, click on your name to get your page.

On the page, in the upper right, is a box labeled "Upload". Clicking that gets you to the upload form where you put in the information and photo. Once you get the info in, at the bottom of the page is the Submit button that sends it all to the server.

Your photo's can be up to 2 megabytes in size, but I'm sure that dial-up users will appreciate it if you keep the file size of the photo down as much as possible without making it too ugly. 30-50k file size photo's with dimensions  400x600 or better are nice.

Let me know if you have any other questions. There is also some info on photo posting in the Help section of the Forum here.

[bro t]

Hi,
about the photo size, even though it says '2 megabyte', the limiting factor actually is the pixels, I think it was 1024 x 1024?  Anyway, I couldnn't get a photo to upload until I used my photoeditor to reduce the resolution to below that maximum pixel count.  Fortunately, I figured it out without too many tries (4?).
bro. t. from Upwest Maine

[CaptK]

Hi,
about the photo size, even though it says '2 megabyte', the limiting factor actually is the pixels, I think it was 1024 x 1024?  Anyway, I couldnn't get a photo to upload until I used my photoeditor to reduce the resolution to below that maximum pixel count.

Oops, forgot to add that in - it is limited both ways - by file size (up to 2 megs) and also by screen size (up to 1024x1024). Thanks for the reminder bro t.

800 pixels wide is probably a safe size to use in order to keep people from having to scroll to see your whole picture.

[Rick Evans]

Guys,

    The cowboy who owned my CP16 found the old mainsail in his barn. I picked it up and it has the texture of an old, well washed T shirt.  No stiffness at all.  I stepped the mast and bent the sails on and found the boom sagged aft terribly.  If I attached the topping lift to make the boom horizontal, the roach in the main was grossly excessive and full.  

I took measurements and the P measurement (from the masthead to the top of the boom where the mainsail tack is) was 14'4".  Now I'm really confused.  Craig indicated the factory specs are off and that the P measurement isn't 16.3 but really 15.3.  I think Craig is obviously correct since an extra foot of luff would take the sail to the cabin top.  However, I'm a foot shorter than 15.3.  The boom has a lug which slides into the mast track.  If the boom is above (i.e. higher) than the cut out in the mast track, then the measurement is about 14'4" from boom to masthead.  If I lower the boom past the cut out more down towards the cabin room, then the correct measurement appears to be about 15'4"  

So, HELP!!!!!  Anybody know the correct P measurement.  Also, I need to know if when the boom is connected to the mast by the slide lug, if it should go up towards the masthead or down towards the cabin roof.  If the former, then it seems my measurement should be 14.4.  If the latter, then the 15.3 measurement makes sense.  However, I again want to mention that this appears to be the original sail which I measured (it has the Compac Logo on it) and the measurement is 14.4.   WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?  I'M AT A TOTAL LOSS.  I could sure use your input.

[Dan Hill]

Rick, with the mainsail raised and a tight downhaul, the boom is below the cutout in the mast's sail track.  Just measured it in the drive way and the 15'3" looks correct.  Hope this helps.