CP-16 Complete Refitting

[Hutch]

Ahoy, Sailors!

I am relatively new to the forums, and this is my first time posting.  I bought an '87 CP-16 in July 2019 in Kenosha, WI and trailered her home to Chassell, MI.  I cleaned her out, ran a fan to circulate the air and dry her out, and covered her with a tarp for the rest of the summer.  In the early fall, I moved her into the garage, where she sat most of the winter.  Over the Christmas break, I removed the bumper rail cover and cut the deck from the hull.  I also began slowly removing hardware fittings.  Then, she sat while we focused on the skiing season. 

In the last couple weeks, the ski season has ended and it was warm enough for me to start working comfortably in the garage.  With social-distancing, I could not enlist any more help than my 10 year-old son.  So, I had to figure a way to lift the deck off of the hull by myself.  I used simple ratchet straps from the cleats (which I purposely left) to the rafters. 

I was surprised by the amount of water and moisture I found everywhere.  Once I started removing the berths, I found nothing but rot and a few inches of wet play sand underneath the glassed cabin sole.  Even as I began drilling and busting out the concrete ballast, I found a lot of moisture all the way down the keel.  I am not completely finished yet, but I would guess I am almost halfway.  I am attaching a couple of photos.  You can see where I drilled into the concrete, I pulled up a wet slurry. 

I almost forgot, I purchased lead ingots and shot, which I had delivered over the winter.  I plan to set that in the bottom of the keel and encapsulate it in resin.  That will leave a bilge for water to collect in the future, under the cabin sole. 

Anyhow, tell me what you think.  I am having a lot of fun!

Robert

[crazycarl]

It looks like you have a good handle on it.  A couple of times I have been tempted to remove the cement ballast and replace it with lead and 2 house batteries. 

I would definitely remove ALL the cement, dry it out completely, and then as you said, mix the lead with epoxy and pour it all in together.  Now if by some horror, the keel is compromised, water shouldn't come in. 

While you're removing the ballast, make sure the trailer bunks are taking the full load of the boat.  As designed, the bunks only keep the boat upright and the load is on the keel.  (but you know this as the trailer is a "Hutch"  ) Removal of the ballast will weaken the vertical walls of the keel and it could be damaged by the weight of the hull as you work on it.   

Good luck, have fun, and keep us informed on your progress. 

[Hutch]

Cheers, Carl!  Here she is when I first brought her home.  And, a couple more photos.

[Bob23]

Hi Robert and welcome to the zany group of Compac-o-nauts! You're doing a great job!
Did anyone mention the initiation fees that are required to join? I didn't think so. I'm the self proclaimed collector of the fees but you are in luck! Normally, I need $5000.00 in small unmarked bills left in a plain brown paper bag on the corner of 5th and Main streets. But today is your lucky day! If you're willing to perform the same keel magic on three of the old members boats, I can be persuaded to...ah, look the other way shall we say?
PM me your address...I'll drive my 23 to your house tomorrow! Thanks...you're a great guy to offer!
Cheers!
Bob23

[Jim in TC]

Hi Robert and welcome to the zany group of Compac-o-nauts! You're doing a great job!
Did anyone mention the initiation fees that are required to join? I didn't think so. I'm the self proclaimed collector of the fees but you are in luck! Normally, I need $5000.00 in small unmarked bills left in a plain brown paper bag on the corner of 5th and Main streets. But today is your lucky day! If you're willing to perform the same keel magic on three of the old members boats, I can be persuaded to...ah, look the other way shall we say?
PM me your address...I'll drive my 23 to your house tomorrow! Thanks...you're a great guy to offer!
Cheers!
Bob23

Well there is inflation for you. I am pretty sure when I joined, not more than a few years back, you could get in with a properly delivered 6-pack of PBR.

[Tim Gardner]

Properly delivered as in an Enema?

TG

[slode]

They say you don't get a hangover that way....

[Jim in TC]

But doesn't it depend on just where your head is?

[Hutch]

Ahoy, Bob!

Thanks for the warm welcome and the attractive terms of initiation!  I'll be happy to help you out with the 23, but you'll have to bring her to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.  We got quite a bit of snow after Easter, and, although it is sunny days now the the storm has passed, there is still a wicked wind off of the lake.  If the sun warms up my garage a bit more today, I may go out and bust some more concrete. 

For anyone considering this, I find it easiest to simply use a maul and chisel.  I tried using the hammer drill, as you can see from some of my photos, but that didn't help much.  I have an air chisel, but I have found it satisfying to pound it out by hand.  A couple buckets full a day feels like good progress. 

Cheers!

Robert

[Bob23]

Robert: I'm leaving now...should be there by...well, whenever this bloody quarantine is over! Thank you...I'll be there and the PBR is on me!
   You are doing a fine job. Lots of work but should be very rewarding when you get to sail. Are you adding more weight to increase the displacement or just placing the weight lower in the keel?
Cheers!
Bob23

[Hutch]

Ahoy, Bob and others!

So, things warmed up yesterday, and I went out to the garage to begin chipping away again.  What I found surprised me.  I sail with a guy, who has a CP-16, and he swears there is lead in the keel from the factory.  But, from what I read on the forums, it seems that Com-Pac only used concrete.   I am sure there are many variations in boat building, particularly over the years, so there may be many truths.  What I found is lots of scrap metal and used wheel weights in the bottom of the keel.  That would make sense, since most tire shops are happy to give away the used wheel weights, particularly if the price of lead is relatively low.  So, this is what I found in my keel. 

By the way, to answer your earlier question, I purchased 450 lbs of lead ingots of various sizes and shot.  I have about 250 lbs of lead shot, and the rest are 2.5, 5, and 10 lb. ingots.  N.B. a 10 lb. ingot of lead is pretty small!  I will place the ingots on the bottom and towards the front of the keel, and fill in the rest with shot and epoxy slurry.  I did some calculations on paper with an estimate of the volume within the keel.  Given that lead is 5X more dense than concrete, on average, the ballast should all be within the bottom 3 - 4 inches.  Obviously, my calculations over the winter did not factor in the scrap lead and metal that was thrown in at the factory.  I will weigh that out in the end, as I am separating it to not throw it in my garden.  Lead is 750 lbs per cubic foot and concrete varies, depending largely on the aggregate used, but averages about 150 lbs per cubic foot. 

Anyhow, here it is.

[Tim Gardner]

Hutch,

Why re-invent the wheel.  While you have some time before you go back in with your ballast,  Give Gerry at Com-Pac a call and ask for his recommendation regarding your plan.  He may recommend re-enforcing the keel with x inches of glass woven roving and resin to strengthen the structure.  The concrete gave an enormous amount of lateral strength to the keel that your plan may not replace.  (if it were me I'd ask about adding a swing keel, ala the Legacy)

just MHO, TG

[Hutch]

Ahoy, TG!

Don't you think it would have been funnier to say, "why re-invent the keel", instead?  Thank you for your reply and your thoughts. 

I spoke with Gerry's brother, when I ordered a few parts for the boat.  He was a very funny guy.  He was happy to hear about my purchase, and he told me: "we built about 3,000 of those boats, but when I go to boat shows, I'd swear it was more like 30,000 by the number of people who tell me they have owned one."  They didn't give me a "Hutch Discount" though.  I did ask.  Anyhow, next time I call I may ask him what he thinks of my plans.  But, I am not overly concerned.

Cement is purely chosen for cost reasons.  It is cheap ballast.  And, when you see the photos below of what else I am finding in the keel, you will know that cost was absolutely the prime factor, and that it added very little to the structural integrity of the keel.  In fact, I find that the last 8 inches are the easiest to pound out, and I can almost just chip it out by hand without the force of the maul.  The scrap wheel weights include everything you expect to accumulate by the side of a tire balancing machine (I know, because I have one of these in my other garage).  It is also full of used valve stems and Schrader valves.  I have found chunks of rubber from tire beads and bead sealant.  I have found utility knife blades and rusted nails pulled from tires.  The funny thing is that it smells just like a tire shop too.  It reminded me of my favorite job, when I was 16, at Schneider's Tire and Auto in Toledo, OH.  That was a great summer, and I worked a lot of hours repairing tires.

Anyhow, I'm not a trained boatwright and I am learning as I go along.  I may be making a big mistake, but, from what I see first hand, that keel is very thick and strong.  That is the real quality of the Com-Pac construction.  I have no doubt that it was doing all the work, and the concrete was nothing more than ballast, at least in my boat for these past few decades.  Although you cannot feel what I felt from the pictures, that concrete was very loose, more like wet play sand, and naturally does not bind to the glass resin anyhow.  Again, if it were structurally important, I doubt they would have haphazardly thrown in the scrap heap from a local tire shop.  My opinion is that it serves nothing more than a cheap source of mass.   

The swing keel idea is interesting, and I had not thought about that.  One of the reasons I bought this boat, was the shoal draft and fixed keel.  I did not want to be dealing with the mechanical issues that invariably come up with swing keels.  Within my price range and project scope, every boat that I looked at with a swing keel had major problems.  In most cases, these swing keels were cast iron or laminated steel sheets welded together with glass over them.  In all cases, they looked ugly!  I think the Com-Pac used a stainless steel swing keel though, which would largely take care of the corrosion issue.  I will ponder that a little more.

In the mean time, I will continue with my plan, as I had envisioned it.  I have some other improvements in mind to strengthen the hull, including G10 backing plates behind all the fittings.  I'll see how things look in the keel when I get to that point.  I have much to do before then, including fairing, painting, etc.  I also have work on the deck, including fixing a couple of ugly repairs that were done in the past. 

Cheers!

Robert

[Hutch]

Okay, I removed the last bucket of concrete.  The bottom 8 inches was the easiest to break out, as it had the lead wheel weights (and other things) thrown in.  It came out easy and fast.  I am going to relax a little and think about my next step.  I took some measurements, to get some ideas for boxing in a marine battery. 

Cheers!

Robert

[crazycarl]

Is that last pic of the widest part of the keel?  You may need to double up on 6 volt golf cart batteries to fit.