Size outboard?

[Steve Cornacchia]

Hi Everyone,

I bought my eclipse (2015) in May and enjoyed my first season on the Chesapeake with it. Just put it back on the trailer for the winter.

Question - the boat came with a Tohatsu 8HP outboard. It really moves the boat but I can't help but feel it is too much power and weight for a boat of this size. I could see the waterline was above the bottom paint on the stern. What are your thoughts? Should I drop down a few HP and will that make a significant change to the weight? That outboard is heavy! and I have no experience with how smaller outboards may weigh in comparison. I like the power it gives but don't think I need it for where I sail.

Thanks!

Steve

[slode]

The 8hp is definitely oversize.  A 6hp will push her to hull speed in any conditions at less than 3/4 throttle and cruise 4 knots at just over idle.  I see at least on the new Tohatsus that the 8hp is a step up to a different engine/casing/housing and is about 25-30lbs heavier than the 4-6hp models.  The smaller unit will probably give you better efficiency too.  1.5 gallons through my 6hp Tohatsu gives me a good 8 hours of slow-mid cruising time.

Depending on your budget, if you can get yours sold and get a 5-6hp for an even trade or better go for it.  But if you're going to loose on the deal I'd keep what you have.  The Eclipse is a bit heavy in the stern anyway.  I store my spare anchor and any other heavy stuff in the v-birth storage to keep it as far forward as possible.  Get some weight up front to lever her out and you'll probably be fine.

[Steve Cornacchia]

Thanks! Very helpful insight. I probably have kept a lot of weight on the stern with gas, 2 batteries, spare anchor. I will try that next season. I am seriously thinking of dropping to the 6HP range as you suggest. Appreciate the help!

[brackish]

Something to consider.  Tohatsu/Nissan has recently introduced a propane model that is identical to the six hp gas units they sell except for a fuel valve, mixer (carb) and cylinder head.  All the other parts are the same and the weight is the same.  The motor is rated at 5HP,   probably derated because of the BTU difference in the fuels.  It will run for five hours on an 11 lb propane cylinder.  On my 23 two cylinders  would fit the fuel locker which is vented and safe for propane storage.

It is an alternative that would let you avoid the carb problems associated with small hp four stroke gasoline motors.  It, of course, depends on your cruise range needs, refill opportunities, and what the eclipse has for a fuel locker.

If I didn't already have a fairly new Nissan 6HP sailpro, I would certainly consider it.

[Steve Cornacchia]

Thanks for the recommendation - I am going to check it out and balance the pros/cons and locker space!

[alsantini]

Steve:  I use a 4hp 4 stroke on Off The Wind.  During the summer I sail on an inland lake.  During the winter I sail on either the Gulf of Mexico or Charlotte Harbor - both having currents.  I have never had a problem with power.  With that in mind, if I needed to,I would go with a Tahutsu/Mercury 6 hp.  It is the same weight as my 4 hp, is the same size, has a long shaft available, and pound per hp seems to be a good deal.  The only down appears to be the lack of an internal tank.  They are able to increase the hp with a different carb, head and cam.  The combination takes away the room for the small tank.  A good friend with a Precision 23, substantially heavier than our Eclipse, has the 6 hp version and it has an obvious increase in power.
Food for thought...  BTW the previous owner of OTW sold the boat to me with a 9.9 hp 4 stroke on the stern.  I sailed with it only once replacing it with the 4hp 4 stroke.  It was a beast and next to impossible for an old man (me) to remove and carry!  It would force the stern down an additional 3 inches.  I sold it with my previous boat, a Precision 21.
Lots of choices. Take your time and research but know that 4 hp is enough to get the job done.  2/3 throttle will get you to hull speed.  Sail on.   Al

[Vectordirector]

Hi,

I'd agree that 4-6 hp is plenty for the boat to reach hull speed in most conditions.  The Tohatsu 6hp sailpro is a great choice if you need an alternator but I'd choose differently if you don't.  The weak spot of the Merc/Tohatsu is the rotation lock screw.  It uses a friction screw that eventually wears out and doesn't lock the motor down enough to overcome torque at low revs and the motor spins by itself when you least expect it.  Tohatsu does occasionally change the design so maybe they fixed that flaw by now.

I  re-powered my Corsair 24 and went with a 4hp Yamaha.  The rotation lock on the Yamaha is much more robust and works great.  My corsair will spin in it's own length if I turn the motor, helps getting out of my canal for sure. 

Unless you are servicing it yourself, I'd look at the popularity of  the motors used locally and the mechanics that service them.  Yamaha is most popular down here in SW Florida and the mechanics are not excited about servicing anything else.   Yamaha tends to be a few hundred dollars more than Tohatsu/Merc but you can get Yamaha on promo in the spring for about the same price as the rest.  My 4 hp was on sale for $1200 in May.  I see very few Honda motors here except for the 2.3 on the little boats. 

The propane motor is interesting but I'd wait a few years to see how reliable it is.  The Lehr 5hp doesn't have a great reputation after having been around for 5 years or so. 

The big issue is fuel.  Not sure what you have available but I'd recommend non-ethanol if you can get it.  If not, use an additive and don't use old fuel that has sat over the winter. 

I looked at all of them and compared price, build quality, etc and Yamaha come out ahead for me, only you can decide which makes sense for you.  6 hp is a couple hundred more than 4hp.  My Eclipse came with a 6hp Suzuki and it worked fine even after 15 years but the rotation lock was shot.  I never needed to go over 1/2 throttle as the boat was at hull speed there and more throttle burned more gas and made more noise but the boat didn't go any faster.  Unless you experience big currents the 4 hp is plenty for the Eclipse. 

The 4hp in some of manufacturers  doesn't have an external tank connection so if you are using an external tank be sure you have a connection for one.  My Yamaha has one and I use it.  Yamaha advertises that the 4 will get 62mpg.  I use less than a pint every time I motor out and back in, about 3 miles each way.  I put in a gallon every 10 times I go out.  I use fresh 90 octane ethanol free from the marina. 

Hope this helps, everyone has their preference.  I'm very happy with my Yamaha with about 30 hours on it. 

Vectordirector

[brackish]

The propane motor is interesting but I'd wait a few years to see how reliable it is.  The Lehr 5hp doesn't have a great reputation after having been around for 5 years or so.

Certainly I would avoid a Lehr based on the many reviews from owners that indicated problems.   Most of those problems are not related to the fuel system, but cheap materials and shoddy workmanship on the motor in general.  The 4-6 hp Tohatsu/Nissans, essentially the same motor with different carbs indicative of the HP selected, have about a gazillion units out there with relatively few reported problems.

I have a 2016 and have not had any problems with the rotation lock screw.  It does not lock completely which is good, it allows me to tap it to adjust it to the tiller to get perfect tracking but once that has been achieved it stays right where I've put it. It is loose enough that I can make serious adjustments when necessary to get in and out of my very tight slip.

If T/N comes out with a propane conversion kit that is reasonable, I'm on it immediately.  Admittedly I've had no problems with the gasoline fuel system using my protocol (non ethanol fuel, touch of Sea Foam, never run it dry, rotate the fuel every six months or so) but the idea of not fooling with gasoline in general appeals to me.  But my cruise profile usually never has me running the motor more than a couple of hours per cruise so fuel storage, range and refill opportunities with propane would not be a problem for me.

[DanM]

Brackish, I'm curious about your comment to "never run it dry".  I have an older Honda 4 stroke 5 hp on my SunCat. An outboard mechanic who worked on it a few years ago (choke mechanism broke and they had to replace the carb) told me that a good thing to do for the motor, if you are not going to use it for a while, is to pul the fuel line off and run it dry so there's not fuel left in the carb. I've been doing this for years. Did I misunderstand you, or is this a matter of opinion?

[brackish]

Brackish, I'm curious about your comment to "never run it dry".  I have an older Honda 4 stroke 5 hp on my SunCat. An outboard mechanic who worked on it a few years ago (choke mechanism broke and they had to replace the carb) told me that a good thing to do for the motor, if you are not going to use it for a while, is to pul the fuel line off and run it dry so there's not fuel left in the carb. I've been doing this for years. Did I misunderstand you, or is this a matter of opinion?

If I were storing for the winter I would probably do that and put the motor, or at least the carb, in a climate controlled area.  But I use mine or at least start it every two or three weeks all year long.  The theory is that if you run it dry air is in there and, particularly in the winter, daily temperature cycles will cause water to condense from the air on the internal surfaces and sit in the bowel and other areas of the carb.  If it is full of fuel there is less air and exposed metal surface for condensation to occur.  Now that condensation probably won't occur in Arizona, but in Mississippi it certainly will.  My Marina owner is a staunch never run it dry guy and it has worked for me. And certainly it is a matter of opinion.

[kickingbug1]

   i have say that i have a 1993 Johnson 4 hp two stroke. it has the original carb, starts easy ( i mean real easy), is a smooth two cylinder and weighs just 36lbs and easily pushes my Catalina 18 to hull speed. i had one of those god awful mercury 4 hp four strokes, heavy (60lbs) , carb problems even using ethanol free gas. and a noisy vibrator. ill never go back to a fourstroke.

[brackish]

   i have say that i have a 1993 Johnson 4 hp two stroke. it has the original carb, starts easy ( i mean real easy), is a smooth two cylinder and weighs just 36lbs and easily pushes my Catalina 18 to hull speed. i had one of those god awful mercury 4 hp four strokes, heavy (60lbs) , carb problems even using ethanol free gas. and a noisy vibrator. ill never go back to a fourstroke.

Kinda reminds me of a statement I made back in the seventies "I'll never have any inboard power in my sailboat but the Universal Atomic Four.  Why would I want to replace that quiet, smooth running, easy to work on, reliable unit with one of those shaky, smelly, smokey, balky, loud diesels everyone seems to be putting in these days".

Does anyone even make small 2 cycle outboards anymore or is it strictly the used market these days?

[kickingbug1]

just wanted to put in my nickles worth

[Tim Gardner]

just wanted to put in my nickles worth

That's worth 250% more than my opinion.  I have the option of a Nissan/Tohatsu 6hp 4 stroke and a 4HP Yamaha 2 stroke for my 19. The 4 strokes rattles my crowns. The 2 stroke relatively purrs.

The 6 hp sits in my storage building. 

TG

[slode]

Couldn't agree more on the two stroke.  I've been trying to find a decent used long shaft 4-6hp for two years and have come up empty.  And that's in the land of 10,000 lakes!!!  All kinds of short shafts but nothing close to 20+"  So far the Tohatsu has proved to be pretty reliable and you can't beat the efficiency.   I'd still get a two stroke if I had the opportunity though.  3 gallons will still get you further than you ever need to go in a long outing.  Unless you're like Al and try to sail across the Gulf of Mexico...

No one sells them new in the states anymore.  Yamaha still makes em but they don't meet current US emissions. 

If you can find a good used Honda that would be my top pick for a 4 stroke,  super reliable and replacement carbs can be had for under $20. But they tend to have very high resale.