hoisting sail

[DanM]

When we hoist the sail on our SunCat, usually I am at the motor keeping her head-to-wind while my wife raises the sail. We find that she struggles to get the throat raised all the way, it always seems a big effort for her to get the sail up about the last 6 to 8 inches. I'm not sure why (and yes, we do know to raise the gaff horizontally all the way). So I am thinking about adding a small winch on the cabin top to make it easier. (like the simple non-self-tailing #6 Harken that the Horizon Cats have) They are not expensive and it seems like an easy mod. Has anyone else done this or have any opinion pro or con?
By the way, on our boat, with the throat all the way up, the boom doesn't lift up and clear of the gallows until you peak up the sail. Is this how all SunCats work? - Dan

[Jim in TC]

We, too, have a bit of trouble on those last few inches. Our strategy has been, when that happens (pretty much most of the time) the first mate passes the halyard back and I help it up to within a couple inches or better of fully raised. There have been occasions where we lost those few inches in the final snugging of lines and give it another tug on the first tack into the wind. The boom tends to lift off the gallows as the sail is peaked, for us. This is our first year in our first cat so I can't assure you that this is "normal."

If you have not put any dry lube in the sail track or on the slugs, that is another way to make things go a bit easier. There are products specific to this task, but ours is now in the cabin under a tarp so others may want to chime in on that.

[bruce]

Dan,

First thing to check is the sheet, if it's cleated, or under foot or otherwise fouled, it will stop the throat before the luff is tensioned.

Is the extended ring that Com-Pac welded to the throat slide bent to the side? They often are. If so, as the throat approaches the halyard block on the mast the angle the halyard pulls on the throat gooseneck becomes more off axis and the slide can jam. A good friend was experiencing the same problem as you are on his PC (the parts are the same). He pulled harder and harder, and eventually the extended ring broke free from the slide, clearly from metal fatigue. Jim started a good thread in June when sorting out problems that he was having with his throat gooseneck. Several comments described problems similar to yours. The bent extended ring issue is covered more completely there.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=10938.0

If the above doesn't apply, before I sprung for a winch, I'd try increasing the purchase on the throat halyard to 2:1. Just add a block attached to the throat gooseneck and run the halyard back up the mast and tie it off at, or above, the existing block. Twice the purchase should give you a sense if you're going in the right direction, if it doesn't solve the problem.

[Zephyros]

My sail track was a greasy mess when I bought the boat, I removed the sail, cleaned the track (it takes time, depending how bad, I used strips of cloth, plastic tools and general degreaser cleaner). I purchased all new sail track slugs/slides, and sprayed on SailKote in the entire track.

MCLUBE SailKote High-Performance Dry Lubricant, 8 oz.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/mclube--sailkote-high-performance-dry-lubricant-8-oz--17757741

Goes up pretty easy now, just a little fiddle of the gaff angle and pull up the final pull in a lull, between gusts, and or as you are swinging through while heading into the wind. This takes pressure off the sail and makes it somewhat easier.

[bruce]

FWIW, I can verify that Com-Pac greases the mast track on new boats as Tom describes. Overkill for the plastic slugs, but they may feel the gooseneck slides need the heavier lubricant.

[Jim in TC]

<<<First thing to check is the sheet, if it's cleated, or under foot or otherwise fouled, it will stop the throat before the luff is tensioned.>>>

That reminds me...a couple times for us the downhaul was still cleated, another way to make it tough to fully raise...and it does not take much for the sheet to be an issue, just a twist in the line can hang things up just enough to make things difficult.

[DanM]

Thanks for all the responses and the link to earlier posts on the subject, which I had forgotten. Yes, I have tried McLube. Yes, We make sure the sheet, downhaul, and also the gaff downhaul (installed by the PO) are free. I'd rather not rely on two of us hauling the throat together.... first mate would feel better about being able to do it herself. The boat is all bundled up for the winter, poor thing, but I will inspect the gooseneck hardware for the possible damage that was suggested. If all else fails, I am still going to consider the winch idea. Still happy for any other comments. Dan

[Catawampus]

I have also experienced the extra resistance on those last few inches of throat halyard. If I first push up the forward end of the boom above the mast hinge, the resistance is much less.

[hoddinr]

I have figured out how to get the throat halyard all the way up (almost), but still have trouble getting the down haul tight enough to eliminate a scalloped luff on the sail.  I have the downhaul line running from an eyestrap to a single block under the boom and down to a turning block and back to the spinlock.  So just 2-1 purchase.
Have any of you increased the purchase on the down haul to make this easier, and if so, what block combinations did you use?

Thanks,
Ron

[bruce]

Ron,

I knew that the SC boom downhaul led through a turning block to a Spinlock cleat, but I didn't realize there was a 2:1 purchase. I believe the throat halyard is 1:1. I wouldn't think increasing the purchase of the downhaul further would be required.

The set up on a PC is simpler, and tensioning the luff isn't a problem. We have a horn cleat mounted in the mast track at the base of the mast stub and a line made up to the ring on the bottom of the boom gooseneck slide. Once I set the height I want the boom to rise to I never adjust the downhaul, and use the throat halyard to tension the luff. My throat halyard has been upgraded to 2:1, to match the peak halyard, but I would think 1:1 should be adequate to tension the luff.

[hoddinr]

Thanks Bruce.

I like the idea of going to a 2:1 on the Throat Halyard.  As you've previously said it makes keeping the gaff horizontal easier since you can use equal length pulls on each halyard. Any drawbacks to that system that I'm not thinking about?

Ron

[bruce]

Twice as much line to deal with, and increased friction when dousing the sail. Neither is a big problem for me.

I know many SC owners add a throat downhaul to help bring the luff down with the 1:1 halyard, 2:1 won't help. But, in PC land, I know plenty of owners who complain about the same thing with the stock 1:1, and 2:1 doesn't seem much worse. There isn't a lot of weight up there to drop, which is a good thing of course.

I've done several things to improve dousing the sail. I upgraded the halyard blocks to larger Harkens, Com-Pac used smaller blocks on the PC, don't know what the SC has. I also went to the Spinlock cleats you have. I had a real problem with hockling and the halyards not running freely through the Ronstan cam cleats with wire rope guide that Com-Pac supplied. The rope guides were tight, but I've since learned the hockling was primarily due to my compulsively coiling the halyards into neat coils, rather than figure eights. I was adding twists to the line. The last thing I've done is mount a 1/4" bungee that's made up to a cleat at the base of the mast, and the throat gooseneck slide, that is stretched when the sail is raised. The 2:1 helps there. The throat drops smartly for the first couple of feet when the halyard is released, after that we may have to coax the luff down if it doesn't drop. Not a big problem in our open cockpit. The bungee isn't as good as a dedicated downhaul, but it's automatic and problem free. I disconnect it from time to time, just to see if it's still useful, and it is.

For anyone who doesn't follow my comments about coiling line, check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX4Zr0vdGHE

[hoddinr]

Thanks Bruce.

I have already added the throat halyard downhaul with a stand up spring mounted block on the mast led back to a cleat in the cockpit, and it's easily the best thing I've added to Nomad.  That sail comes down in a hurry now!

thanks for you detailed descriptions and explanations.

Ron

[Roland of Macatawa]

I'm following this discussion with great interest.

With my SunDayCat, I also have difficulty hoisting the sail the last foot or so.
My problem seems to be related to the position of the cheek block.
The uphaul line coming down off of the cheek block is not colinear with the sail groove but offset to starboard.
This makes the line side load the gooseneck into the track when it approaches the cheek block.
The inside of the track is rough over the last six inches or so of raising travel.
Am trying to come up with a clever remedy for this.

For those of you who have changed to a 2:1 throat halyard, what have you done with the existing cheek block?
Have you raised it to accommodate whatever length of turning block is introduced at the gaff gooseneck?
If so, have you introduced a new upstop, since the cheek block previously functioned as both a turning block and an upstop?
I believe an appropriate upstop is necessary to maintain leverage distance from the gaff gooseneck to the peak halyard blocks.

Thanks, Roland

 

[bruce]

Roland,

That you see scarring on the track is particularly interesting. Is it primarily on the starboard side of the track, the direction of your cheek block offset?

Is the extend ring on your throat gooseneck slide bent to one side or the other, that will cock the slide as well.

You could temporarily mount a swivel block higher on the mast, and run the halyard through that to see if that improved the situation. Photos could be helpful.

On my PC, the throat gooseneck never reaches the cheek block. The luff downhaul limits the upward travel.