Adding brakes to trailer ?

[Red Planet]

My situation is similar to Glenn's, except that the Performance trailer for my Eclipse is equipped with the original 10" rims. I'd rather not go to larger diameter wheels at this time.

TieDown's kits look great, but the smallest drum size is 10", which I'm guessing won't fit my wheels. Can anyone recommend a drum brake kit that will fit the original 10" rims?

[Craig Weis]

Yep, throw some electric disc brakes on the trailer and put the control unit up under the kick panel of the tow thingy.
Many units to choose from, just decide on the weight and pick a mfg. of control.
Usually a bolt-on packaged deal.
Fleet-Farm?, Builder's Square?, Mobile Home Supply? or an aerocraft suply house for really tiny discs. [Go Carts].

Pick what ever will fit within the wheel rims.

Remember, your not stopping any 72,000 lb of semi truck.

Just a little drag is what you only need, if that.

I just brake sooner and longer and softer.

N.B.D. Use these on the Performance standard wheel/axle combination. Standard is...

...5 Lug on 4.5? Bolt Circle - 545
This is the standard 5 lug bolt pattern for the vast majority of boat trailer hubs and rims. It is also known as the small Ford bolt pattern.

(CAUTION) It should be noted that electric brake hub drums must have a flat machined magnet contact surface to operate successfully with electric brakes. Some hub drums are available in a hydraulic only style without this smooth machined surface. Hydraulic only style drums MUST be avoided when electric brakes are used.

Electric style drums can be used on either electric or hydraulic systems, but hydraulic style drums can only be used on hydraulic brakes.



Pair of 10" x 2.25" electric trailer brake assemblies with parts.
4 Hole Mounting
For Alko, Dexter, Quality, or other popular trailer axle manufacturers.
Contains 1 left and 1 right brake assembly.



And you will need one brake control unit under the dash.



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[David V.]

Red Planet,

I had the same issue. As it turns out, there is a company in Florida that sells a brake kit designed to handle this very problem. Rocket International Trailers, rockettrailers.com, sells a drum brake kit that fits in a 10" rim. The space inside the hub of a 10" rim is less than 9"s and this was the only brake I could find, disk or drum, rated to stop 3500 lbs of boat, trailer and boat crap that fits. Having seen first hand what happens when brakes are under-rated for the job, I don't screw around with this. Go to the parts section of their website, look for hydraulic drum brakes, part # 40240 - 8.5 Inch Hydraulic Drum Brake Kit - Complete Single Axle - 6600#    $646.00. It's not cheap but it works well. I did the installation last year and have been happy with it.      David

[Red Planet]

Thanks, David-V. That kit from Rocket International sounds perfect, and I like the safety margin of 6,600# stopping power. I've had the devil of a time finding anything small enough to fit inside my 10" rims, so I'll be ordering from Rocket International soon.

And thanks to Skip, for the clear discussion of electric brakes, with visuals!

[Craig Weis]

R.U. Sure that you want to do hydraulics? A change in the trailer coupler is necessary to act as yet another brake master cylinder for the surge braking. The surge sometimes locks up the brakes which pulls the couple back and releases the brakes, then slams fwd when the tow slows again only to repeat this cycle of stuttering.

And then there is the backing up problem when ramping...so...or your going down the ramp and you put the brakes on. The tow stops but the trailer has zero brakes because the hitch/master cylinder with activates when the trailer is going fwd but not when going backwards. Not surging.
I just thought I'd ask.

Also at 6,600 lb that is 3x as much as the boat and trailer weighs, so your prepared to lock up the trailer wheels while barely stopping the tow. Hummmmmmm. Sound streaky to me.

We use electric on all our trailers, chippers, and stump grinders in the tree cutting business. Each trailer, chipper, or stumper requires a different control setting with the under dash control unit, even when using the same truck with several different trailers three-four times a day.
Just my two cents. You only need a slight drag. And then there is the rainy weather.

Reminds me of a joke.

A trucker is speeding down the highway and a state trooper asks on the C.B. ,  "Hey driver, how fast are you driving?' The driver lies and says OOOOhhh about 60 mph." The cop says, "I suggest you speed up because your trailer is doing 75 mph."

skip.

[David V.]

Red Planet & Skip,

The rating of 6600 lbs. is for a tandem axle. For some reason the hydraulic actuators are listed by the maximum load, but it is actually 6600 lbs. for two axles and 3500 lbs. for one axle. The brakes themselves are listed for 3000 or 3500 lbs., I don't remember. Whatever the actual rating, I was comfortable with the specs..

Newer hydraulic drum brakes are designed to be directional, in other words they work in the forward direction but not in reverse so backing up isn't a problem. Also there is an override pin in the actuator in case there is a problem. Of course  this means that there is a right hand brake and a left hand brake, but the instructions were detailed and I didn't have any problem getting it right. As far as the brake chattering, I had read about this but haven't had any problems. There is a 1/2 second delay built into the actuator which seems to eliminate this problem.

As stated above, I installed this kit and have no complaints with the brakes. The actuator is the coupler and you might need to drill a hole or two to fit the tongue of your trailer to the actuator. The biggest problem I had was that I have an old trailer and the tongue is 2" across the top and 4" down. Newer trailers are usually 3" across, therefore I had to work something out with shims and grade 8 bolts. However I was able to find shims designed for this and the setup is stronger that the pivot point on the trailer further down the tongue.

Finally the trailer axle must have flanges for the brakes to bolt on to. I replaced the axle, but it was almost 20 years old and rusty so replacing it was part of the project anyway. Adjusting the brakes with a brake spoon can be challenging because the flanges are so close to the adjusting wheel. Fortunately this is not a job that needs to be done often.

Originally I looked into electric brakes, but couldn't find anything that fit into the hub of a 10" rim at the rating I wanted. Also I was concerned about mixing electricity with water. However there are a few companies out there that are making supper sealed brakes just for this purpose, there just weren't any units that fit my needs at the time I did the research.

David

[Craig Weis]

"...so backing up is not a problem but their is a pin to over ride..." the non existant problem.
Excuse me. I'm laughing too hard. Actually I had no idea we had special drums that only brake in one direction. I always thought it was from the leading and trailing shoe within the drum. What do I know?

But to be truthful either system will work fine.
skip.

[CaptRon28]

They also make a reversing solenoid that you plumb into the hydraulic brake line which either shuts down or returns the brake fluid to the master when you back up (wire attaches to backup lights). Required for disc brakes but could work nicely on drums. Note that a disc system has several advantages over drums, including significantly faster cool-down, better braking when wet, and much easier to flush out after a trip into salt water. You can also see how much lining you've got left on the calipers without having to tear everything apart. I recently swapped out a drum system for discs on my tandem axle 7500 pound GVW Venture trailer used on my Telstar. What a difference - in stopping power and just about everything else. The hubs are running about 100 degree cooler now.

I think electric brakes with a good controller in the truck are better than any of the hydraulic surge systems, BUT dunking them into water (salt or otherwise) scares the _____ out of me. I've got 2 large car haulers which work a lot better with electric, but they don't get backed into the Gulf of Mexico or Atlantic Ocean. Besides the wiring, wire connectors and an electric cylinder at each wheel, you're also got a 12 volt battery hidden somewhere on the trailer for break-away purposes. There's a reason why virtually every boat trailer with brakes has a surge system.

Ron M
Telstar 28, Horizon Cat soon?

[Craig Weis]

Ron lucky you. Hope you aquire that Horizon Cat. I want one too.

I don't tow enough weight to worry about brakes.

"There's a reason why virtually every boat trailer with brakes has a surge system."

Good point. Didn't think about 'salt' water. I never get close to it.

As far as the 'electric cylinder' is concerned a ton of 'electric solenoids' work fine as a rusted-up blob of wires and steel laminates dipped in a factory coat of electric motor type varnish. As long as the contacts are clean. The bearings/slides for the moving part usually are a non conductive plastic type material and not effected by rust.
Being in the used equipment business at one time hundreds of motor starters have passed my way. They were just blobs but they worked. I don't know why.

I don't even unplug the trailer lights from the tow when launching my boat.
Nothing ever failed in 30 years. Don't care. Figure a little WD-40 and back in business.

"Note that a disc system has several advantages over drums, including significantly faster cool-down, better braking when wet, "

Sure do. Our company plane was an Air Commander and when Toby applied the brakes I'd watch the discs glow red hot and instantly cool back to black when coasting. That was so cool.

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[David V.]

For anyone who is interested, here is a link to a Technical Paper published by Champion Trailer Parts Supply with a good discusion of the differences between disk and drum brakes, also when and why you would use one or the other.

http://www.championtrailers.com/DrumVsDiscBrakeArtcl.htm


David

[Red Planet]

Thanks for posting the Champion link, David-V. It's an excellent paper, which I stumbled across in the research leading up to my earlier question here. The article convinced me to stick with drum brakes for my 2,990# GVWR trailer, even though disk brakes are much sexier, not to mention easier to rinse after a dip in the brine.

I might go with electric brakes if it weren't for the added complexity and cost. But I've had surge brakes before and they were okay. Years ago I did some fishing and diving out of a Grady-White, which I towed all around Florida. The trailer was equipped with hydraulic surge brakes that performed well. Backing up was an issue once or twice, easily resolved by throwing the lock-out pin. Now there are solenoid systems to handle that without leaving the driver's seat.

The truth is that the options are limited, as you discovered. I'm happy with the launch/retrieval characteristics of my boat/trailer combination with the 20.5x8.0x10 tires. Changing to larger diameter rims in order to fit typical brake drums or disks would entail tires that are disproportionately taller, so ramps would have to be deeper, etc. I'll never forget retrieving a CP 19 I formerly owned, at a remote ramp near Savannah, twenty years ago, with not a soul around to help (or laugh at me, fortunately!). For a while there it was a toss-up whether I'd drown the car or drag the bottom out of the boat. With the Eclipse and the low-profile trailer tires, Hutchins has done a lot to mitigate the launching challenge.

s/v "Luna Sea"
2005 Com-Pac Eclipse

[David V.]

Red Planet,   by the sounds of it you have owned both a CP19 and now an Eclipse. Can I ask what you think of the Eclipse in comparison to the CP19? I haven't seen an Eclipse yet ( I'm talking about the boat), but am very interested in one as a possible upgrade. Do you believe the Eclipse is as well made as the CP19? Compared to other boat I have seen in the 18' - 20' range the CP19 is very well built. The boat I have will be 20 years this spring and no stress cracks. Does the Mastender System make that much of a difference? I have managed to streamline my launch time with the CP19 down to the 20 - 25 min. range. How about getting it back on the trailer with the shallower draft, there are several launches in my area that I won't use because I don't want to deal with the return trip. Concerning the interior space, I do not find the CP19 particularly comfortable to sit in. The Eclipse looks as if Com-Pac has done a better job with the quarter births in terms of a place to sit or just escape from the sun when necessary. In photographs the cabin interior of the Eclipse doesn't look quite as nice as that of the CP19, however photographs aren't always good for judging these things. (I had a CP16 that looked far better than one could ever have guessed from the photos.) Finally, how do you like the open transom? It seems to me that it would be great when the weather is warm, but I have concerns about all that open space when the wind picks up on a brisk Fall day. Your thoughts would be appreciated.   Thanks, David.

[Red Planet]

David-V,

I'd like to move your question and my reply to the Eclipse section of this forum http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?board=17.0. Maybe we can wrangle some comments from other Eclipse owners who may have previously owned a CP19. I'm still fishing for knowledgeable comparisons myself. Hope you don't mind.