Adding brakes to trailer ?

[Glenn Basore]

Hello all,

I'm interested in mounting surge brakes to my 2006 Eclipse boat trailer (Performance Trailer- no brakes) this winter.

Has anyone done this ?

I had all ready put 14inch rims / tires on the trailer when I got the boat. I had to cut the fenders off and remounted new fenders which all came out nicely.

I would like to find stainless steel parts to do this if possible.

Glenn B.

[HideAway]

Glenn,

When I had my trailer built from a power boat trailer and ordered brakes on one axle the sales guy said its easy to do etc.  HA- I insisted they do it for me and was glad I did.

First you have to cut off the tongue to put the surge mechanism on then you have to find out if you can add the brake drum and brake assembly to your existing axle.   Turns out, at least on mine you could not.   Fortunately I was quoted a fixed price and the company had to stand the cost of a new axle.   You may need a special plug to convert the electrical.

Otherwise they have been a pain - one wheel tends to lock when the trailer is empty and moving forward.  I'm almost afraid to take it apart to see what is happening.   I don't know if you can find SS parts - But they will be expensive - all it takes is one rusted spring and you're in trouble anyway.

I was warned that the brakes may prevent the trailer from backing but that has not been a problem.

This is one job that should be left to the experts methinks   Matt

[Glenn Basore]

Matt,

The axle was a concern for me, I don't know if there is enough room between the frame and hub to mount the backing plate ?

I plan on cutting the tongue any way to make a telescoping  extension so I don't have to get my rear wheels wet.

As to the reliability of the surge brakes, I have never had problems with them in the past, the back and forth action while driving is so what annoying but having brakes out weighs the cons.

I would perfer electric brakes but I'm all ways having electrical issues re lights not working and thought the surge brakes would be better for me.

Ive towed trailers with no brakes, with surge brakes and with electric brakes, I like the electric brakes system by far but like I said electrical systems and I don't do well .

I think taking into a shop to get a good idea of what needs to be doneand cost of doing so is a good idea, at least by talking to an installer I might get a better insight as to how much effort this is really going to take vs paying to have it done.

Ive got some time to think about it any way............

Glenn B.

[brackish]

Glenn, go to page 4 of this particular forum.  Kchunk (Greg) converted his drum brakes to disk brakes.  He did have to have the axle extended in order to make it work.  Lot of info on the subject on his thread.

Frank 2

[Glenn Basore]

Thanks Frank,

I just got through reading what you referred me to.

The disc Brakes he has are really nice and would most like be the best way to go. saying that, he all ready had drum brakes where I have none.

I need to do some measuring to see how much room I have between the frame and the hub backing plate.

Glenn

[CaptRon28]

I've had a number of boat and other trailers and I've become sort of an expert in the subject. Recently had to rebuild a 2 1/2 year old Venture trailer for my Telstar, mainly because I trusted the boat builder to equip it correctly. Last time I do that. Performance Cruising may build a decent boat, but they have absolutely no idea of what a trailer needs.

First of all, you've got to check your state laws as to what the trailer has to have. Generally speaking, you must have brakes if the boat and trailer weight over 2,500 to 3,000 pounds (depending on the state). If the trailer has tandem axles, roughly half of the states require brakes on ALL wheels. Even if your state does not require this, it's normally a good idea anyway. Depending on the size of the wheels and brakes, it may not be able to stop more than about 3500 pounds of total weight with 2 brakes, and it's going to push all the excess onto your poor tow vehicle. Don't be surprised if you hit the semi in front of you when he stops.

What kind of brakes should you get? Although its a better system overall, electric brakes do not do that well in water. Great for my 11,000 pound Haulmark enclosed car hauler, but it's not that easy to keep the water out of the brakes and wiring when you back it up into the water. Surge brakes are probably the better choice for almost all boat trailers. Another choice is drums vs discs. If your water has salt in it, there is really no choice. The drums are nearly sealed and it's hard to flush water out of them. Discs are open and can be flushed very easily. I'd use discs in any kind of water because they have many other advantages - like cooling off a lot faster if used hard. I wound up replacing 2 drum brakes on the Venture's front axle with 4 Tiedown Engineering aluminum caliper vented disc brakes. Also had to replace the actuator (surge tongue) with a Tiedown actuator made for disc brakes and added a solenoid to allow the discs to back up in reverse. By the way, the difference between towing long distances (NJ to/from FL) with 2 drums vs 4 discs is huge. Night and day. I went from crossing my fingers when cut off on I-95 (please don't stop!!!) to "who cares".

Anyway, this is a huge topic. I could probably write a book about it. For example, how many of you have weighed the trailer tongue? This is critical if you want to be able to tow safely. For some of the larger boats, do you use a weight distributing hitch? Etc., Etc.

Ron Marcuse
Telstar 28
Looking to buy a Horizon Cat (to leave in NJ and stop trailering boats around).

[Glenn Basore]

Ron,

Yes the disc seems to be the way to go and using a surge is my  choice for reasons you described.

State wise (California) I'm okay without brakes.

My 1996 s10 Blazer tows my Eclipse okay but I would like a little more braking !

In a panic stop I'm not going to be able to stop, even with surge disc brakes I doubt if I could stop, however, for the day to day towing I think the brakes would be advantages over all.

Glenn B.

[David V.]

Glenn,

I have a 1990 CP 19 III, which is only slightly lighter than the boat you have. I rebuilt the trailer from scratch, replacing every bolt with Grade 5 or 8, total rewire with LED lights, new bunks, tires, springs and axle. The brakes were added at that time as the trailer did not have them. The job is a fairly easy one, but you may need or want to replace your axle if you don't have brake flanges on it. Also your boat may not be heavy enough for disk brakes and will probably have to use drums. The brake coupler just bolts on, so at the most a hole or two might be required, but the drilling went easily. I would suggest you go to Champion Trailer Parts Supply. They have a website with plenty of technical information on what you would need and how to do the job. They didn't have everything I needed but are a good place for info and I thought the best deal on a quality custom axle. (3500 lbs. 8" drums are very hard to find - I kept the original 10" wheels. Didn't go for the larger wheels because I didn't want to raise the trailer and make the launch more difficult. However in hind sight I think you were right to change the wheels, as finding the right brakes is very difficult.) The new drums have a special yellow zinc coating and you may find that all the new coatings available will work as well as stainless, as stainless is only rust resistant and will rust if not maintained. Stainless steel needs special lubricants even for the bolts or it fuses so I actually found myself avoiding it due to cost, brittle properties and fusing issues. Not always the best on a trailer. It was an interesting project - have fun.

David

[CaptRon28]

Glenn -

You better re-check your source on California trailer brake laws. The AAA says "Required over 3000 lbs. GVW / on at least 2 wheels".  Here's one source for all of the various states - http://www.roadkingtrailers.com/brakelaws.htm. I had a Road King trailer under a wing keel Catalina 250 about 3 years ago. Not bad but it had 4 drum brakes. Not the best setup for salt water. Sold the boat because of the time it took to rig it and that it took close to 6 feet of water at boat ramps to get it on or off the trailer. Hard to find a ramp on the east cost with that much water at the end.

I've got over 5,000 miles on the 6500 pound Telstar 28/Venture rig (combined weight of boat and trailer) pulled by around 6,500 pounds of Chevrolet Avalanche. Perhaps 3500 miles was with the riduculous pair of drums that Venture bolted on. The brakes were rated at about 1/2 of the trailers total weight. Didn't really know what I was missing until I ripped off the 2 awfull drums and bolted on a set of 4 vented discs. The damn thing can stop now, perhaps 50 percent better than before. No, I won't outbreak a Corvette with 15 inch rotors, but I feel a lot safer now. I carry a laser temperature gun in the truck which I use to measure the wheel / hub temperatures at some rest stops. How about close to 400 degrees on the trailers 2 braked hubs before the upgrade to around 125 on all 4 after? The trucks 4 wheel discs dropped by around 50 degrees too.

Other modifications to the trailer included moving both axles back 4 inches on the trailers frame - to get the tongue weight up to around 9 percent of the load. It was around 7 percent before. Also replaced the lights with totally waterproof LED's, etc. I've been using an Equal-I-zer weight distributing hitch for about 4 years now too, moving close to half of the tongue weight to the trucks front axle. All of these things help.

I no longer have to cross my fingers moving a boat between FL and NJ. It's turned into a comfortable and easy trip. I have to look in the rear view mirror to make sure the boat and trailer are still there!

[Glenn Basore]

David,

The trailer you have, is it a "performance trailer" ?

My trailer seems a bit under sized for the size and weight of my boat, it seems to flex a lot while going down the road.

Glenn B.

[Glenn Basore]

Ron,

When I registered my boat with California DMV I had to have the trailer inspected by the California Highway Patrol which they did giving me an approval for DMV, and my tags !

Glenn B.

[nies]

Glenn, it has always amazed me that companies will put a to light (cheap) trailer under a tens of thousand dollar boat, i suppose the reason is to keep the package price down. Over the years I have found you will never be sorry in over kill on the trailer........Phil

[CaptRon28]

it has always amazed me that companies will put a to light (cheap) trailer under a tens of thousand dollar boat, i suppose the reason is to keep the package price down.

I suppose that's one of the reasons. But the primary one is that they know very little about building a trailer. Putting 2 small drum brakes on a tandem axle trailer rated at 7500 pounds gvw (in my case) was almost a bad joke, and illegal in the 2 states where my trailer lives (and those in the middle as well). The instruction manual from the company that makes the brakes on the trailer plainly states "You must install brakes on all axles", and that the pair of brakes on each axle are capabable of stopping 3500 pounds in total. How about the other 3500? No one else bothered to read the brake instruction manual?

I had a long talk with Tony Smith (head of Performance Cruising) about his trailers. He relied on Venture to guide him as to what was the right thiing to do. He apologized and is now equipping all of the Telstar trailers with 4 brakes. Unfortunately they are still drums, but that's still a major improvement. He didn't want to go with discs because not all trucks have wiring installed to operate the backup solenoid that's required on the actuator. Didn't want to be in a position of letting someonw leave the parking lot with a trailer that can't back up. You've got to release the pressure on a disc brake system. Drums don't care.

[Glenn Basore]

If money wasn't an object, I would be willing to buy or have a new trailer made equip-ed the way I wanted it, but that's not my reality.

Facing retirement in June (2010) I wanted to add the brakes while I was still working and I thought I would be looking at about $400 to $600 to do so.

Now I'm not so sure of what can of worms I will open !

Glenn B.

[kchunk]

Hi Glenn, I see that my post from a few years ago was mentioned back from when I replaced my drum brakes with disc. The job should be just as easy if you're adding brakes. The only parts of my original brakes I used were the brake flanges already on the axles. Did you look at your axle spindles to see if they even have brake flanges. They just might be there. If not, replace the axle.

The website I like a lot is Easternmarine.com. They have a lot of technical info on there website to make figuring out the project relatively easy.




Here's a link from their site to picking the right axle: http://www.easternmarine.com/em_store/tech_info/axles_tech_info.html
A replacement 3500# axle with brake flanges looks like it will cost you around $125 depending on length. For a couple bucks more you can opt for a 4" drop axle which will get you back some of that trailer height you added by switching to larger wheels (but then your fenders might not fit). Either way, it looks like you have to have the leaf spring seats welded on which should be no problem. You'll just need to locate them from your old axle and have someone tack weld them on.
Straight axles: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=166
Drop axles: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=167





As for the brake kit, you have a couple choices. I went with the Kodiak 10" S-Cad. The S-Cad is described as "Silver cadmium plating offers the best value of protection for salt water applications". Surely the stainless brakes would be best for salt water, but I only use my trailer a few times a year so I couldn't justify the cost (the stainless brakes are about 3X the cost).
Here is the link for the S-Cad kit for $122.95: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=6721&categoryID=302
As well as the stainless kit for $379.95: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=6722&categoryID=302

Both kits contain everything you'll need behind your wheels: hubs, lugs, lug nuts, bearings, brackets, rotors, calipers, brake pads and hardware. The only thing here is to make sure the bolt pattern will work with your wheels. You need wheels with a 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. Here's a link to a bolt pattern template to help you figure it out: http://www.easternmarine.com/em_store/trailertires/bolt_circle.html





Next, you'll need an actuator. I went with the least expensive, a Titan / Dico Model 60 with built in in reversing solenoid, $120. Here's the linky-link: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=5436&categoryID=150.
FYI, the reversing solenoid is necessary for backing up your trailer. When you put your vehicle in reverse, the solenoid actuates, blocking hydraulic pressure from locking your brakes. Drum brakes don't require this solenoid, but disc brakes do. For this coupler you'll need a 2" ball on your vehicle.





Lastly, you need a brake line kit. Since your boat/trailer combination doesn't weigh a whole lot, you can go with a flex line kit. It's less expensive and easier to install than a the rigid stainless kit. I have a flex line kit for my 23 and it works just fine for $60: http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=5930

So, not including shipping, it looks like you'll be about $428 into it for a basic set-up and the price goes up if you opt for any stainless upgrades or the drop axles. Definitely not a bad price and definitely do-able for the average shade-tree mechanic. However, be prepared...this stuff is heavy and so is the shipping bill!

If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them here or email me directly.

--Greg

*EDIT* I just thought of something else. If you have a tongue extension you'll need to account for that in your brake line. Either a loop of line equal to the lenght of your extension or a brake line quick disconnect. I went with the quick disconnect because I store my trailer in my garage but I need to completely remove the tongue. Just a thought...