Questions: Single Line Reefing - Looking for specifics and other questions

[Zephyros]

I know your boat isn't handy for testing, but I would try setting something up to see how you like it.

I'll try some tests to see how it goes.

I was never a fan for drawing the luff tighter to the mast, I'm not sure what the point is. Not reefed, the luff is parallel to the mast.

Bruce, when you say "drawing the luff tighter to the mast" as are you thinking using a Swivel block cleat base could not be mounted far enough forward to get a good angle to tighten the luff?

If yes, is your thinking only a mast mounted block and foredeck cleat would give the best "drawing the luff tighter to the mast"

[Byron of Bedford]

Really enjoy this "rabbit hole" and appreciate the collaboration.

I decided to keep it simple (aka cheap) and installed one cheek block on boom and keep the two ends separate. My plan was to use a cam cleat mounted on the boom (Harken 150 with fairlead https://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5735). The base seems too wide for the boom as in the contour of boom leaves the sides of the base out in thin air. I'm guessing this is the issue you are talking about Bruce on the mast install? My inclination is to return to the clam cleat junior and also add one for the aft rig in place of horn cleat. Seems easy, cheap and workable.

Unless...one of you sets me streight.

[bruce]

Sorry, Tom. I didn't see your reply yesterday. We're up to page 4!

I don't see I great need to draw the luff tighter to the mast when reefing, the primary goal is to pull the luff cringle tight to the boom. However, the stock set up uses the reef hook, which is going to hold the cringle right there, with no slipping aft as the leech cringle is pulled aft, as well as down. For that reason, I can see a potential need to pull forward a bit on the luff cringle so a gap doesn't open up between the luff and the mast. If that is useful, and by how much, I think would be best determined by doing some tests.

I would guess that it won't be critical, and it's mostly about minimizing friction and running the line to a cleat that suits your need. I reef rarely, so I'd probably accept the cleat on the boom, if a was doing a single line system. But cleating on a moving/bouncing boom isn't going to be as easy as going to the foredeck as you do with the halyards and boom downhaul now. Then if you have pull hard to set the reef you'll be able to get your body into it. I hope this makes sense.

Byron, you're correct about the base on my 40mm cheek blocks, there are gaps at the fore and aft edges. The fasteners in the center are well-supported, and the blocks work fine.

Two lines will minimize friction. Personally, I wouldn't want to use clam cleats, but that's just me. There might be a small cam cleat out there with a SS back that can be bent to the boom profile, but clam cleats work. I know some who use a clam cleat on their CB pendant, to set the depth, and then bring the tail to a horn cleat as a back up so it can't be dislodged accidentally. Could be useful.

Update. For those still looking for a cam cleat that could work on a curved surface out of the box, here's a couple of ideas.

Ronstan makes a curved base for its medium and large cam cleats. The curve won't match exactly, but there'll probably be good contact on the outside edges, good for stability. Unfortunately, the small cleat doesn't seem to have this option.
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ronstan-cam-cleat-medium-curved-riser-base-rf5416

Here's a small Harken, that's attached to a plate (H423). Fasteners are only 23/32" apart. I think they're using the fairlead screws to mount the whole assembly, but that needs to be verified.
http://www.apsltd.com/h423-micro-carbo-cam-on-plate-w-bullseye.html?fee=5&fep=20878&utm_source=Google+Shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Product&gclid=CjwKCAjw7_rlBRBaEiwAc23rhnvn6I1LPRcHeTfD7ADOWaB92F11F3fq-bNN2N2Yo-VXUfirvOeB2xoCgvgQAvD_BwE

Allen makes small cam cleats with a SS backing that could be bent to some extent. Less so, the one with a fairlead built in, but the spread between the fasteners is only 1". Bending will effect the cams, so proceed with some caution. Finding Allen products in the US can be tough.
https://www.purplemarine.com/chandlery/deck-fittings/cleats/4762-allen-cam-cleats/allen-stainless-steel-based-cam-cleat-mini-14338.html
https://www.purplemarine.com/chandlery/deck-fittings/cleats/4762-allen-cam-cleats/allen-stainless-steel-based-cam-cleat-mini.html
https://www.sailboats.co.uk/allen-stainless-steel-based-cam-cleat-mini

Another quick and dirty trick that can be used to mount flat hardware on a curved surface is to use washers at the fasteners to raise the hardware so it clears, or just touches, the curved surface at the center. Nylon would work, and provide some corrosion protection.

[bruce]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran across this company that makes an elliptical pad for mounting hardware on spars. In the kit with the small Ronstan cam cleat, they include the pad undrilled so you can select the orientation to suit your needs. Extra holes wouldn't be a real problem, but I bet a phone call will get you some undrilled pads for $6.
https://www.murrays.com/product/01-0109/
https://www.murrays.com/product/01-0112/

[Zephyros]

Thanks for the feedback on the luff angle Bruce.

Bryon, regarding the cam cleat, for my needs and opinion a cam cleat on the boom is entirely to large and would look out of place, especially for the seldom used reefing hardware. If your still wanting to go that way the curved bases Bruce found would be the way to go, bending a ss cam cleat base would most likely no longer hold the line load as the teeth would be set at an angle and spread apart. If I mount the cleat on the boom I will go with the one shown in the Suncat rigging mod article:
Clamcleat 002111-1
https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/modifying-my-sun-cats-rigging
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sea-dog-line-aluminum-clamcleats-with-integral-fairleads-002111-1

Speaking of curved bases, here is a cheek block base I came across:
Schaefer Cheek Block Mounting Pad for 5 Series Cheek Blocks 55-60
Mounts to/ Works With: Fits 2-1/2" to 6" dia. Spar section.
https://www.riggingandhardware.com/p-45795-schaefer-cheek-block-mounting-pad-for-5-series-cheek-blocks-55-60.aspx

For my boom blocks I'm really liking these Selden ones in lieu of the Ronstan ones, more compact:
Selden Ball Bearing Block, 20mm, Single Cheek SKU:SLD40210113R (Selden P/N 402-101-13)
http://www.apsltd.com/selden-ball-bearing-block-20mm-single-cheek.html


And for the last rabbit hole, I found a good reference for how I'm leaning for my setup, except I think I will still add Bruce's Ronstan cringle blocks, this diagram just does a nice job to show the mast mount swivel cam cleat block:
Single Line Reefing System
http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.com/2011/09/single-line-reefing-system.html?m=1

[bruce]

If anyone is still thinking about using a lance cleat on the boom, the back is already curved. Fit well on my boom. PC and SC booms are the same extrusion, DM-275. I just used a little butyl tape to isolate the metals.
http://www.rwo-marine.com/products/productdetail.php?code=R3601

[Renae]

I got the "Do you really want to kick the poor dead horse?" warning as I hit reply here, but...

I'm getting ready to re-rig my reefing line.  I day sail, and while one can't plan for everything, I stay off the lake in any conditions likely to necessitate use of the second reef point.  Therefore, I am asking about a single line reefing system for a single reef point.

What I want to know is:

a) For those of your who use some sort of a shackle or other attachment system in the cringle as opposed to just passing the reefing line through it, what is the benefit and do you feel like it is just nice, or necessary?
b) Soft shacklers--make or purchase?  If the latter, where?

[Roland of Macatawa]

Renae,

a) I abandoned the forward reefing line last season only to make its turning block and cleat available for a gaff/sail downhaul line.
Otherwise, I would not have changed it.
b) Am trying a soft shackle this season. No experience yet, but the fit looks promising.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/fse-robline--4-mm-dyneema-soft-shackle--19784578?recordNum=3
Like the tiny line to release the soft shackle.

Regards, Roland

[bruce]

I won't be party to the abuse of any animal (unless I'm eating it ), but I have no problem reviewing my own mod. I hope anyone else who's tried it will as well.

We rarely reef, but do get caught out on occasion. My wife doesn't do adventure, so I tried to optimize our reefing system. Bringing the line forward on the boom, so it could be reached when the boat was off the wind, was a no brainer, as was replacing the horn cleat that comes on the PC. I don't want to be fiddling with a cleat any longer than necessary as the boom bounces around. Reducing friction at the cringle was equally obvious, but I won't say it makes a huge difference. Easy enough to test for yourself, you probably have a small block hanging around. See how much friction is in the stock line and cringle set up, and run the line through the block to compare.

Finding a pre-tied soft shackle in the right dimensions is probably going to be difficult. Custom tiers will charge a fee. I'll be glad to tie a shackle for you, or anyone else on the list wanting to try this, for cost. You might want to quarantine it for 14 days to be safe.

[Christopher]

Rudder Pin-
  I use a wood golf tee.  It works great!  It fits the hole nicely and it holds up well unless you hit bottom at which point it breaks.  I have been using a golf tee for a few years now and I'm very pleased.  Someone on this site (I don't remember who it was) posted using a golf tee quite a while back and so I tried it and like it.  I would not depend on just the friction bolt because I have found that the rudder can creep up on you while sailing. Also if you really tighten it up it can be hard to loosen leaning over the transom when your in a hurry to pull the rudder up.  The golf tee is usually fairly easy to pull out.