Questions: Single Line Reefing - Looking for specifics and other questions

[Byron of Bedford]

So much great advice here that is all new to me. THANKS! We need you guys working on the space shuttle.

I couldn't relocate the article about cam cleats one clams. Bruce's point about the clam cleat being vulnerable to being accidentally hit was one of the points I recall. The difficulty of releasing was another point.

I took the boat out yesterday is a very light wind and played with the reefing again before installing a new set up. I read a comment saying that a single line system is difficult not as functional as having two separate systems when it comes to getting the sail tightened down. What I realized yesterday is that being able to do everything without leaving the cockpit is what is really important to me. I think I am leaning toward using the factory installed system in the back and having the front on a separate block and cleat that is operated from the cockpit. This seems simple. Any comments on my conclusions? The loop in the cringle is very interesting and it seems it would allow for a tighter fit. Any downside you guys see?

Bruce your tiller lever is inspiring. I now see why you said you don't have to leave over the transom. I'm putting that on the list of projects.

Bruce I noticed you have some kind of setup in lieu of sail ties? It looks like a line of some kind that bungee cords run off of? Would you be willing to share your design. I find myself disintegrating from an initially tidy sail bungeed to the boom to "just shove it in the sail cover" once things are down. Do you have your boom and gaff tied together and in the same groove on the gallows when you trailer? (I am realizing I am on to a new topic so I will stop now).

...like I said, steep part of the learning curve....
 

[bruce]

I think going with two reefing lines led to the cockpit makes a lot of sense. Much less friction. Down the road you could experiment with a single line if you wanted to. I'm not sure how far forward the leech reefing line comes on your boom. On the PC it's way out on the end, and hard to reach unless the boat is dead into the wind. I moved my cleat forward.

I don't have a block on my luff cringle, on the leech it's made up to the cringle with a soft shackle. The line is fixed on one side of the boom, passes through the cringle block and back to a cheek block on the other side of the boom (first photo, there's a block hiding in there). I would try and do the same thing on the luff, but having the line go up and back on the same side of the boom would work. Most seem to do it that way. I wouldn't run the line through just a loop on the cringle, too much friction. You could try it, of course. The loop is handy when you're using the reefing hook on the gooseneck, easier to grab.

Here's another bit of hardware that you don't see very often, a ball-bearing cringle. Good luck trying to find that one locally. The sheave is pretty small, not sure how effective it is.
https://www.southernseasmarine.com/goiot-quick-reef-system-main-sail-boom

I use a Starbrite Sail Lash Centipede for tying the sail. 7 arms off the main bungee. I use the downhaul ring on the boom gooseneck forward, and installed an eye strap at the end of the boom. Works great. I remove it once the sail is raised so it's not in my face. Your boom's only 1' 6" longer than mine, there's plenty of stretch in the bungee. I tie 3 of the arms when I drop the sail, and the other 4 once I've dropped the mast. I should be better about flaking.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/star-brite--sail-lash-centipede--4480380

[bruce]

Byron,

I forgot to answer your question about stowing the spars on the gallows for travel. Everything is bundled together. The boom and mast are separated and wrapped with carpet-style headliner at the gallows, to buffer all surfaces. I slide a foam beer koozie over the end of the gaff to isolate those hard edges from the sail.

[Roland of Macatawa]

Byron, Bruce, Zephyros,

I'm following this thread with great interest.
I am considering upgrading my SunDayCat reefing system to a single line system.

In what I've been seeing here, the forward reefing line is being tensioned straight downward to the boom.
Many reefing diagrams recommend it being tensioned diagonally forward and downward to the mast.
Any comments on the relative merits of these two methods?

Thanks, Roland

[bruce]

I haven't done either, but I wouldn't go to the mast for a couple of reasons. First, the boom is set by the downhaul. I'd want the reef to be set to the boom so I didn't have to balance the boom and reef settings. The second concerns sail shape. You want the luff to be pulled straight down, maybe slightly favored forward since the reefing line and block won't be as fixed as the reef hook, but you don't want a wrinkle at the luff from going too far forward. The leech reefing line pulls down, as well as aft to tension the foot.

Experiment if you want. Temporarily attach a turning point representing the cheek block to the boom and mast, and see what works for you. I'd be interested to hear what you find.

I'll add another thought. If your goal is to bring the reefing line to a cleat on your cabin top, I think I would still mount the cheek block on the boom below the cringle, then bring the line forward to a cheek block on the mast, and then on as necessary to your cleat. This will add at least one, possibly two additional cheek blocks. That's a lot of turns, and it may look better than it works. I'd definitely do some testing to see if it was going to be practical.

[Byron of Bedford]

Thanks Bruce! The centipede looks like a great solution to many problems associated with securing the sail. I'm on it.

One other mess I have is my anchor. Do you have a good system for securing the anchor to the roller? I saw one post that showed a pin installed that runs through the roller and a link of the chain that looked pretty efficient.

Also for protecting the boat from the chain? I have seen some posts on using a bicycle tube zip tied to cover the chain. Some warnings against trying to rubberize the chain etc.

[bruce]

At first I tied the anchor off to the bow cleat, but I've since made up a bungee with a nylon hook on the end, that I attach to the mast, that works well. The hook comes with a keeper, but I cut that off. There's sufficient tension so the anchor and chain are securely held above the deck. We don't anchor much, but if we did, I might consider applying a plastic sheet with double sided tape on the area vulnerable to chain damage. Or maybe a mat, with soft silicon rubber backing so it wouldn't slip, that I'd flop down just when we were handling the chain.

Not sure where I got the hook, but this is similar, if not the same.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--shock-cord-hooks--P002_068_004_502?recordNum=20

[Zephyros]

Byron,

For my anchor I'm going to try Slick Tape on my deck to avoid scratches. UHMW is durable stuff but will not take a beating like Bruce's idea of soft silicon rubber but it will better disappear as it is translucent. The white look in the below link is just due to the peel off release backer.

Good source, .020 thick:

UHMW is an abbreviation for Ultra High Molecular Weight. This polyethylene adhesive backed tape features a higher abrasion resistance than steel or Teflon and offers reliable low friction properties as well. This tape can be used in many applications but specifically works well to reduce deck chafing from sheets or lines. 2 in. is 0.02 thick. Can be sold by the foot or in 108 foot rolls (36 yards) with a peel-away backing.

http://www.apsltd.com/uhmw-tape-2-quot-cut-by-the-foot.html

[bruce]

Byron,

After thinking about some more, I'm liking the mat idea better. Deployed when anchoring, stowed away otherwise. Adhesive-backed sheet would look good on the clear decking, which is 4" wide on the PC, but maybe not so much on surrounding non-skid areas I'd want to protect. Lots of gunk would sneak underneath.

Silicone isn't UV resistant, so I wouldn't use it exposed, just as a backing. EPDM rubber is used for roofing and pond liners, tough environments, and it comes in white. Cut out the shape of the deck hardware bases in the area, and slit the mat so it could slipped around the fittings. That would capture it in place. Butyl and Santoprene are other rubbers that McMaster-Carr lists as having with good UV resistance, but I think they only come in black.

Of course, if you're handy with a marlinspike you could tie a nice mat. Photos please!

[Zephyros]

I reached out to Roger who discussed his single line reefing in this thread:
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=10881.msg82067#msg82067

He sent me these photos and information on his setup and also gave me permission to share the information here:

You can see for the Luff reef he has a double block setup, the larger one on the leech cringle and the smaller one on the boom. He led the line via the "silver fair lead mounted on hinge, helps keep luff forward."

Roland, your point about: "Many reefing diagrams recommend it being tensioned diagonally forward and downward to the mast." That is exactly what Roger did, I asked him about lowering the mast and trailering and he said: "I trailer all the time with no problems".

Also, he notes he does have a downhaul in this thread, so apparently that did not cause any issues with the reefing line run to the mast:
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=10881.msg82055#msg82055

[bruce]

Thanks, Tom, this is fun to see.

It's interesting that he has a block on the luff cringle, but not the leech. Also, the line is fixed to an eyestrap the starboard side of the boom at the clew, passes through the cringle, down to the cheek block where it turns and leads forward. In the second photo, it appears that the line returns to the cheek block. This suggests he has balancing blocks along the boom. But, in the first photo, the line doesn't return along the boom, it just turns at the swivel block at the gooseneck, up to the luff cringle block, and back the fairlead and down the mast. This link describes balancing blocks; they wouldn't have to be inside the boom.
http://coxeng.co.uk/sails-and-rig/single-line-reefing-diy-system/

My comment about the boom downhaul was to avoid a second control line pulling the boom down, by pulling the sail to the boom directly and not further pulling the luff against the throat halyard once the downhaul went slack. But, if it isn't a problem in practice, fine by me.

[Roland of Macatawa]

Zephyros, Thanks for getting and posting those photos from Roger.

In the second, I see the small block at the luff reef cringle.
But even zooming in, I cannot see well how it is attached to the sail.

How do sailors if they use a block at a reefing cringle typically attach it to the sail, anyone?

Thanks, Roland

[bruce]

Often with rings or dog bones. Here's the set up on a much bigger boat.
http://sailing.thorpeallen.net/Greyhawk/Reefing/index.html

As I've mentioned, I use a soft shackle. You could go through the cringle to a ring and back through the cringle, or just pass the soft shackle through the cringle and have it come around the luff or leech back to the block. I use the one in the first photo on the leech. Easy to make the shackle longer if you need to (second photo).

Here's my go to link for tying them. My general favorite is the Better Soft Shackle (which includes a handy calculator for laying out the shackle) but I've tried many variants at this point in 1/16" to 1/4" Dyneema. Light weight, super strong, won't chafe, soft if it's flogging about. Single braids are very easy to splice, I haven't progressed to double braids. No fancy fid required, just a length of wire folded over. I encourage everyone to give them a try.
http://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4

That said, Roland if you, or Tom, Byron, or anyone else following this thread, wants to try them out, but can't find them and aren't otherwise looking for a new hobby, I'll gladly tie up a couple for you for the cost of materials and shipping. Send me a personal message and we can work out the details

[rogerschwake]

  It's attached with a reef hook. Had no problems with this set up, worked good.
  ROGER

[Zephyros]

Hi Roger,

Thank you for joining the conversation. Could you please tell us a little more about your two red port lines on the boom. It appears one is the reefing line going from the rear tack reef block to the forward clew reef block. But there is a second red line that is attached to a padeye mounted next to the rear port block and then goes forward and disappears under the sail fold, what is that second line used for?

Also, do you recall the line size you used, 3/16, 1/4, etc?