Hello. I just recently bought a 79 cp 16 in good shape. Everything is great except for the cabin. It's pretty bare bones. I'm talking crummy wood floors., exposed crumbling concrete ballast, battleship gray walls. I have no idea what direction I'm going to take as far a decor. If anyone wants to show off their 16 interior I would be very interested. Thanks. Luc
Join the club! We too have very recently bought a C-16/3 (yet to be collected...that's another story) and am looking for a bit of inspiration for an interior refit. So I will be watching closely.
I'm in the UK and C-16s are rare. I have only seen one other ComPac in the last 5 years - a C-19.
Gordon
C-16/3
#2767
'Applejack'
Hi luc22
Welcome to the forum. I just bought my C 16 this summer and haven't had a chance to do much interior work. She was pretty clean when I got her and well taken care of. Not a sparkling gem, but not a project. I've been spending most of my time learning to sail her.
I, too, want to do a few things, so I'll follow along with your progress and see how things go. Best wishes for lots of fair skies and good breezes.
Marc
I just bought a 16/3 and I think the interior is kind of posh. It is tricked out with abundant teak and the hull is carpeted up to the bottom of the house sides. Mine came with a set of bags that will hold more than I usually keep in either of my boats. It seems to me that I have seen somewhere that Hutchins sells shaped carpet to replace the original stuff in a 16/3. That should fit any 16. I have also seen some that use firing strips to dress up the interior hull. It might pay to look at as many ads for 16's as you can find. I noticed a lot of different treatments in the ads that I reviewed. Sailing Texas has a good sampling. I personally think that it is important to dress up the interior of any cruising boat no matter how small. If you are going to use it even just to get out of the weather for a while, it will be much better if it is inviting. The cabin on my Weekender is the size of a mountaineering tent. I have spent a fair amount of time in there and enjoy it even though I can't sit up. I have cabinetry and decorative accents appropriate to such a small space so that when I am in it I am content.
Al
Luc22
look at this web site and poke around at some interiors pictures that are available
" http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99compac161979.html "
Personally, a basic approach, just to address the crumbling concrete and painting the gray walls a lighter color, maybe a piece of removable indoor/outdoor carpeting on the floor and forward flat surfaces would make a difference.
j
Thanks everyone for the help and warm welcome. I can definitely see this forum helping me get through a long New York winter. Thanks again
Welcome, Luc22-- There's a lot on the forum about fixing the crumbling concrete keel, so search for posts on that.
The biggest improvement to Thankful's bare-bones cabin was painting everything forward of the lazarette gloss white. Wow, suddenly you're not in the dungeon anymore! Now I don't get depressed below decks anymore.
I also made a half-height bulkhead to put in the bow to isolate the anchor rode--not yet installed.
Other than that I haven't done anything fancy. I want to make a galley box, and figure out how to secure milk crates in the forepeak for stowage. That may be about it--I've got to get this boat in the water sometime!
Look around the forum, there are some gorgeous projects for reference. Have fun-- Gretcheng
I'll join this club! I just recently purchased a 1980 16. When I first looked at the boat I was a little intimidated, but the price was right and it's a small (project) boat, right?
I have been reading about Com-Pacs for about 8 months before buying one. I really wanted to move down in size and have a boat that I can trailer with my vehicle.
The inside of her looks bad. It looks like every piece of wood is going to have to be replaced and some of the hardware is going to have to rebedded.
I'm not sure about the keel. After reading here I'm a little nervous. The boat is in MA living at a family members house and I haven't had a chance to really go through her since the purchase (last week). Instead, this week was spent retitling both the boat and the trailer here in NY...always a fun visit to the DMV.
Long story short, I would love to bounce ideas off of people here and get some fresh thoughts and ideas. For me, half of the fun of owning a boat is problem solving and having an excuse to talk about boats. Over the last two years I have been fixing up an older Pearson 26. I sold her last summer before getting married. Here are some pics:
https://sites.google.com/site/sailapearson26/ (https://sites.google.com/site/sailapearson26/)
I have stated modifying the rudder and gluing and finishing the tiller right now. So projects are starting to begin. I would like to get the boat framed and covered before the snow starts really flying in MA. My hope is to have the inside gutted before February.
Tim
Luc22 & Others,
WOW, what an opportunity you all have staring you in the face. Like an artist standing before a new bare canvas ready to express his thoughts and dreams in oils. You are looking at the interior of a boat crying out for some TLC. Sit back, relax, list the projects to be accomplished, establish priorities, and ENJOY THE PROCESS OF MAKING HER YOUR OWN POCKET CRUISER.
To many of us (older and more experienced cruisers), a large part of the enjoyment of having a boat(s) is being able to modify them in some way to improve some aspect of the sailing experience.
Just take it one step at a time and revel in the joy of the experience. Bye now, gotta get back to building my fourth boat - a Kayak this time!
This photo, taken down below in my Pocket Cruiser, says it all.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Com-Pac%20Sun%20Cat%20Mods/IMG_0029.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/Com-Pac%20Sun%20Cat%20Mods/IMG_0029.jpg.html)
A very true statement there. Over the years I have spent many a happy hour in the cabin of my various boats contemplating life, the universe and many other things besides!!! Small boats are better as in the winter they are usually in the garage.....
Hey Tim:
A couple of things to think about as you put your C-16 interior back together. Both of the C-16's that we have owned had compression posts extending from the top of the cabin under the mast, to the keel of the boat usually through the shelf in the bow. They also had support for the cockpit deck, in our boats in the form of a large block of styrofoam wedged between the cockpit and the bottom of the boat. Some on this forum have made other supports for the cockpit to increase storage.
Both these items deserve serious consideration when rebuilding the interior of your C-16.
Best of luck in your restoration.
regards charlie
Best of luck with your project. Determination and perseverance will get it complete. I suggest not to take short cuts and use the best products. I just recently finished my 1980 CP 16 restoration. { CP-16 Forum Mission Complete} Posted pics.
capt_nemo, I couldn't agree with you more. I am very excited about having a clean slate to work with. Good luck with the kayak project!! Helping a friend build his 18' Chesapeake Light Craft was my introduction to the world of boat building and ironically enough my interest in fiberglass.
GeeW, I wish that I had garage space to work on the boat. I'll spend next week making some kind of shelter for her. I'll do my best to make it garage like though. ;)
Charlie, thanks. I noticed right away that someone had cut the old compression post out. My guess is that it was cut out because it was rotten. I am currently looking at, investigating ideas, and brainstorming about alternative compression post builds. I don't love the original center placement of the of the 16s. But, with that being said my mind always wanders astray when I begin tackling a problem.
If you look at my overbuilt P26 mod, you'll see that I went a little crazy overbuilding the compression system and mast step. https://sites.google.com/site/sailapearson26/ (https://sites.google.com/site/sailapearson26/)
And on that note, I also re-over-built the cockpit in the P26 and I was contemplating modifying the original CP-16 design.
One more thing Charlie, did you rebed the hull/ deck joint?
Cats Paw, yes and yes. There is no way I'm going to take a shortcut or use subpar materials...it's not in my Yankee nature to do either.
I have been following your CP-16 Forum: Mission Complete and have looked over your pictures 100 times...so big THANKS for putting the effort in and getting those pictures up and into the interweb. I'll inevitable have questions for you and I thank you in advance for any help and advice you will offer me.
Tim
Hey Tim:
Nope I did not need to do anything with the hull deck joint, there were no leeks.
That is one heck of a rebuild on the Pearson! Very nice work.
The C-16 should be pretty easy in comparison.
regards charlie
Well, that is good to hear Charlie!
I haven't gotten the chance to look at my hull/deck joint yet, but I'm hoping that it's in better shape then what I found yesterday.
I got the boat home Saturday AM and started taking the cabin apart right away.
I am unhappy, but not surprised, to report that the concrete ballast material was is bad shape.
After sponging up water in the bilge for 20 minutes and having more water appearing from seemingly nowhere I deduced that the water must be coming from w/in the keel. This led me to drill a hole in the keel. When water started blowing out of this hole I drilled 5 more holes.
Question for Luc: What action have you taken in regard to your keel/ ballast situation?
I have read and reread all the threads that come from searching the forum about keels, ballast, concrete, etc. Save Steven's aka keyskid's insanely awesome lead smelting project
(http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5837.msg41184#msg41184 (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5837.msg41184#msg41184))
most of the information I yielded was unsatisfactory.
Any thoughts anyone?
Thanks for the input and the help everyone,
Tim
Quote from: Tim on December 07, 2014, 09:16:06 AM
I noticed right away that someone had cut the old compression post out. My guess is that it was cut out because it was rotten. I am currently looking at, investigating ideas, and brainstorming about alternative compression post builds. I don't love the original center placement of the of the 16s. But, with that being said my mind always wanders astray when I begin tackling a problem.
As long as the compression post in directly below the mast to will transfer the load to the keel with almost no load on your cabin top.
Yes, pacman, this I will do. I'm starting to get to the heart of some problem areas.
It looks like there is a wood frame where the compression post use to be.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3i-WHdj2iuVRy13Y2JxQmsxUUU/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3i-WHdj2iuVRy13Y2JxQmsxUUU/view?usp=sharing)
Took a look, noted a couple of things:
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/IMG_0297.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/IMG_0297.jpg.html)
You have a nice little project for the winter. Ther's several guys here that have done EXACTLY what you are in for. Make sure you replace the bow eye backing plate, that's your link to trailer sailing nightmares if it pulls out.
$0.02 TG
TG, thanks for pointing out the holes for the compression post. Since the post was missing when I purchased her, it was hard to tell if that was the original purpose of those holes. I also don't have another CP16 to look at and compare pieces and parts. When I was plowing through my Pearson 26 project I had access to a few in my boatyard to compare with.
Thanks for the advice about the backing plate. I'm re-bedding all the hardware on the boat with G10...my favorite backing plate material.
Tim
I would love to remove some of the concrete from the keel of my C16. If I had a damaged C16 with rotted concrete, I would jump at a chance to modify the ballast. Added depth for feet in the cabin foot-well is very desirable, it makes sitting more tolerable for longer periods of time. The porti pot becomes more user friendly. I would also like to re-locate a battery or two for increased storage space, elsewhere. I would replace some of the concrete with poured lead, wheel weights, batteries, iron pigs or what ever, at the lowest spot possible to replace the now missing weight of concrete: not as much weight would be needed to get the correct righting moment with the new ballast lower in the keel. In addition, she would float higher and/or carry more cargo. Many people like a slight forward weight distribution to balance out crew weight and remove some of the weather helm; that could be accomplished as well.
I'm not sure I would take out or replace all the concrete because I don't know how much impact strength the keel derives from that mass of concrete. Nor would I add more total righting moment; that might stress the old standing rigging too much even though one could "out sail" other C16's in a stiff breeze. Of course one could check out or improve the standing rigging to handle the additional stress . . .
Just a thought, I would call Hutches before changing the keel weight or level of weight in the boat...............the 16 was designed that way for a reason..........but I am Mister Caution ...........................nies
OT alittle:
Quote from: Citroen/Dave on December 19, 2014, 05:37:52 PM
rotted concrete
you all scare me with the concrete issues. I have seen some wetness in my "bilge" at times. Boat sails well, what other symptoms? you're all making me nervous!
Concrete/Bilge issues: Project "RU-ACH"
The fiberglass mat seal over the surface of the bilge was torn away and rendering its purpose null. From the prospective of a neglected boat water than migrated down into the keel between the concrete and fiberglass. It was obvious that the cabin was flooded and holding water at one time by the appearance of a water mark toward the forward area. The top layers of the concrete were broken away and loose more likely to due to freeze and thaw cycles here in the north. The outer surface are of the bilge side plates were specked with blisters and boils. I than open a few relief hole for water to drain. I found also the the fiberglass on the side plates were weak and brittle and lost its structural integrity because of water penetration with the freeze and thaws. That prompted me to peel away those outer side plates and restore. Prior to the restoration I allowed the concrete in the keel to vent and dry out. To move the project along i kept in place a work lamp in position to warm the concrete to help draw out the final amount of moisture. Pictures under Topic the forum topic "Mission Complete" can be viewed. I had to float in at the top of the bilge #80 of high strength concrete to replace the broken and loose. Prior to the application of the new concrete to the existing I used applied a bonding agent for maximum adhesion. After a week of curing time I than poured a thickened epoxy around the seam of concrete an fiberglass in the bilge to penetrate and migrate into the keel area. Than I sealed over the bilge with a layer of fiberglass mat followed primer and paint by two clear coats of epoxy extended up the walls of the bilge that support the cabin floor and bunks.
Northern boats must have a dry concrete bilge through the winter, if stored outside, or the freeze/thaw cycle will crumble the concrete and possibly distort and crack the fiberglass keel.
My thoughts on replacing a portion of damaged concrete with a lowered, denser material to gain foot space in the cabin sole is not really a rebalancing of the boat. It is just being more conservative of the buoyance and the space on the boat.
Citroen/Dave, I am with you in your thinking about changing over the ballast material. I just started my CP16 project so I am only
beginning to contemplate some of these larger projects. I will say though, at this point I keep getting myself deeper into the project.
After digging up and out an inch of crappy cement from my keel I decided I was going to get radical.
I ended up cutting out the soggy wood forward in the v-berth area. It was a real pain to work in that small space so I decided to take
off the rub rail and see how the 5200 looked (you can see where this is going). Although there were no visible signs of water coming through this joint,
once the rub rail was off it was apparent that the seam was compromised. I could see light coming through in several places from within the cabin.
At this point I had two choices: 1. dig out the seem and rebed the seam w/ 5200 or epoxy or 2. completely separate the hull and deck and
put a new fresh seal on her. I decided to go with option 2 mostly because of the aforementioned reason of struggling to make repairs in such a
small space. With the cabin off it will be much easier to replace the interior wood and work on this ballast issue.
I am thinking of next digging out the old concrete and making a plan to add new ballast material.
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k555/kpeting/IMG_0393_zps30ed311c.jpg)
Tim: This is turning into quite an undertaking. You're into it now big time...no turning back! That's a great photo...just begs for a caption.
Bob23
I can see that it will be a fine boat after completed. Another CP-16 Saved
The idea of removing the concrete and adding epoxy-encapsulated lead ballast is pretty cool.
You could end up with a lighter load to tow, better righting movement, a little more storage and foot room.
A battery box with keel bulkheads could be added into the keel as well for even more space savings, and to reduce cost of lead.
Let me know if you do this; I can probably help with ballast calculations if you provide me measurements.
that would be sweet to have all the weight at the keels lowest point. i imagine 450 lbs wont be necessary
Consideration:
If all the ballast weight were to be moved south in the keel I would consider placing stringers/cross bulkheads in the voids in the upper area of the keel to give structural integrity. It is possible otherwise that lateral stress may pivot / hinge the keel from the bottom of the hull form and cause failure not so say what might occur with a hard grounding.
For example with your CP-16 resting with the weight firmly on the keel bottom lift and and down a bit on the deck joint midships. Lower one trailer bunk if need be to allow some clearance. You will notice some flexing at the area of the hull keel intersection. I think it would be much more extreme without the cabin structures.
Yep, one could also form a nice battery box with access lid that sits inside the keel using the stringers with battery shelf. That's what I would do anyway...heavy extra weight may as well be in the keel.
Then fill the void with lead and either concrete or epoxy (could get expensive with epoxy so concrete might be better). Well, not filled...the precise amount of course. :) ;) :)
The remaining void where concrete used to be could be extra storage, foot room, flat water container, etc. Leaving the aft portion of keel free from ballast or otherwise keeping ballast forward might help balance the 16, which IMO could use a bit of forward weight.
I did some calcs once, they are not on this computer, but recall something like a 200lb weight savings if you use lead, but I was guessing at the measurements but I bet that is pretty close.
I have really enjoyed everyone's feedback and comments on this post. Also, I like the direction that is is going in.
I teach in the same school with my buddy that helped me rebuild the Pearson. All we have been talking about for the last week and a half was this ballast issue.
After he and I separated the hull and deck last weekend it was clear that I was neck deep into this project, so I might as well bust out the keel material and start fresh as opposed to trying to creatively patch up the crappy cement ballast.
I have no experience with re-ballasting a boat, so at this point any feedback has to be in simple English :)
The idea of reenforcing the keel with fiberglass, building stringers, and (fully) encapsulating iron in epoxy feels like the direction that I want to go in. I feel like cement is a subpar material and has more than proven its achilles heel...at least here in the north.
Unfortunately I have to go to Florida over the holidays and have to put the project on hold for two weeks. But, I'm anxious to get back to the boat and put my pneumatic chisel to work.
Happy holidays everyone,
Tim
Quote from: Salty19 on December 23, 2014, 12:30:43 AM
I did some calcs once, they are not on this computer, but recall something like a 200lb weight savings if you use lead, but I was guessing at the measurements but I bet that is pretty close.
Quote
You want 280.3 lbs of lead, laid low in the keel-within the bottom 3.5", to equal the force of 450lbs of concrete. Yes I did the math!
Source: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5108.msg35763#msg35763
Salty didn't show his work, but that seems about right in my mind. I've seen guys melt down old wheel weights using propane stoves, poured into sand molds to make ballast. Obviously working with lead there are some precautions you want to take, but the processes doesn't look very hard. Personally I like the idea of locating a battery and water tank in the keel cavity. A group 24 battery is about 45 pounds, so I would do 240 pounds of lead and reinforce the fiberglass in the keel up through the turn to the hull. But I'm no engineer.
This all sounds good to me and I believe that I am understanding the physics involved. BUT I feel like I should go with 300# of iron or lead and enough concrete to hold the material in place...putting me back at around 450#. This way I am keeping the ballast / displacement ratio the same, which I kind of like, and lowering the VCG which I also very much like. This would also allow space to create a proper bilge area.
I should say here that it is my full intention to use this boat in the ocean when I am finished with the project and will be emphasizing stability over speed throughout this rebuild.
I managed to remove the concrete from the keel. It was a pretty time consuming project. If you want to keep track of where I am on this project follow this link: http://kpeting.blogspot.com/ (http://kpeting.blogspot.com/)
It took me two pretty full days to clean out the whole keel and here it is!!
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k555/kpeting/keelfinished_zpsb6958d93.jpg)
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k555/kpeting/ballast_zpsb04ccaba.jpg)
They ought to sell recycling bins somewhere. I had ones similar to yours and used them for everything. Saw horses, garage seating, haul broken concrete out of basement, haul yard waste, step stools, haul split wood......And on Wednesdays they also went the curb full of recyclables.
That looks like a heck of a lot of work, but your livin' the dream of us Com-Pac 16 owning armchair naval architects/boat tinkerers. I can't wait to see how it turns out.
I have a fair amount of experience working with lead...probably the reason for my low IQ. I apprenticed under an old school plumber who insisted on lead caulking cast iron pipe joints. I still have my old lead working tools and hopefully will never need them again.
I never dreamed lead would cost $.85 a pound wholesale. Back in the 80's/90's it was dirt cheap. If you go with lead you'll definitely want to find a salvage source. I used to buy 20 lb ingots until prices started going up. After that I would purchase from scrap metal yards. I believe scrap yards are paying $.50-.60/pound.
Lead isn't cheap anymore but still probably the best material for a low center of gravity and it's easy to work with.
It looks like I am going to use lead as my ballast material. I was able to find a guy in Maine with some good sized ingots. I bought 300# at $0.80/ pound. I've never worked with lead, so this will be a new adventure.
If anyone needs lead...I now know a guy ;)