deck to hull joint?

[saillover]

My boat is in the garrage and renovations have begun. 
The list, so far.
New interior.
Possibly replace the ballast.
Repair the deck to hull joint.

I have removed the rubbery coping that was covering the joint and have found
the rivets are mostly swollen rust balls... the fiberglass is in tough condition where the rivets are
and I am uncertain that I will be able to re rivet.  I have pictures but I have not yet figured out how to post them as I am new at this forum stuff. Any hoo.. what to do??? I feel certain that this is not an uncommon repair on the CP16.   You experienced guidance will be appreciated.

[bob lamb]

Hey Captain
  You can get a lot of info on the recent postings of the following compac site;   
                            com-pac@yahoogroups.com

[bob lamb]

OOOOOPS!  The previous link is only an email address...this is the group site:   
                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-pac/

[mgoller]

Hey Saillover,
Sounds like you will have a fun and memorable winter working on a boat.  Not a bad way to spend part of your life.
The hull deck join is not a complicated matter really, unless you think you will separate them (don't do it).
Take the rub rail off, scrape and clean the crud off and out of the join.  Go as deep as you can with some sort of improvised scraper, maybe a  1/4" into the old sealant.  Use a 3M marine grade sealant and smear it in smooth.  You can drill out the old rivets and re-rivet or leave them and go between with a freshly drilled hole and new rivet.
Warm up the rub rail after you clean it good.  Maybe in the sun or a big tub of hot water and stretch it back on before it cools.

Have fun and take pictures.

[saillover]

Thanks marcus. I am taking pictures of the process and will post them as I go along. I need to figure out how to put pics on in my forum entry. I will get to it.
Do you have any suggestions on sources for appropriate rivets? the one that are in there now are swollen chunks of rust.
I have used Jamestown Distributors before. Any others to recommend?

[mgoller]

Hey Saillover,
I think rivets are easier and were used on many Com-Pacs.  Nuts and bolts were also used on many models.  if you use nuts and bolts you could use stainless or bronze so they wont rust.  A good 3/16" aluminum rivet would give you a long lifetime.  My guess is the original rivets were a steel and aluminum rivet and that's why they rusted.  I think you can use any good fastener and get a lifetime of service.
I don't think it would hurt to caulk the rub rail so that it doesn't collect water.  The caulk could be visible or not depending on how you apply it.

[multimedia_smith]

for those who might be interested in seeing what's involved

Here's a look at Bill Swart's illustrated rub rail job... he has some other interesting projects on the site also...

http://faculty.augie.edu/~swart/CP-16/HullDeck%20Repair.html

also here's a pic I scanned from the manual.

http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=212

Dale

[saillover]

Wow, thanks multimedia_smith.  that is a great link and also thanks mgoller.  I am just in from the garage
and I have removed all of the rivets from the starboard side. I know this might be overkill from a structural standpoint but what about fiberglassing this joint to make it permanently waterproof?  Is there too much flex associated with this joint to recommend glassing?

[mgoller]

Wow Dale, that is a great article.  Don't glass the joint it will just crack apart and make a mess as the boat goes through its paces.  Use a good marine sealant as the article suggests.
I took my rubrails off once and yeah what a beach that was!  I had no way of heating them back up to get a little softness.  Good thing I am stronger than smart.

[saillover]

Ok .. sealant it is.  What do you recommend for sealant? Should I put all this pressure on you to know every thing??? I have a bad habit of using 5200 on things that I shouldn't. A desire for permanence misplaced.

[saillover]

I just read the article and 5200 it is.

[vanler]

I just did this repair today.  As I posted in my refurb thread  to get the rubrails back on I had to bake them in the oven at 200 for 5 minutes!  It worked though. 

[multimedia_smith]

Depending on the time of year here you can park the boat outside and within minutes the rub rails are too hot to handle... that's why we can't really sail a lot in the summer here... mostly we just cook breakfast on the sidewalk.
Dale

[finchm]

It wasn't as bad a job as I thought it would be.  I did it by myself and it probably could have been done in one day if I had been motivated.  Also, the job wasn't as messy as I expected.


Helpful things to know (other people mentioned some of these tricks -- THEY WORK!)

One tube of 3M 5200 is more than enough to reseal the entire outside hull area.  It is also enough to do all of the easy to reach inside places.

The guy with the super nice web site on this topic used a dremel tool to remove the old sealant.  I would not do this.  I removed the old sealant by hand with a razor blade and heat.

Using a heat gun can help to loosen the old 3M5200 that is being removed.

Placing the rub rails in a 200 degree oven to soften them up is a fantastic trick, and the job is not really possible without doing this.

Using longer bolts when replacing the rub rail makes things super easy.

The tube of 3M5200 has a metal end cap that needs to be pried off before it can be used.  The tube says "pierce end cap."  The instructions would be better phrased "Pierce end cap and pry off of tube."

The place where the chain plates pass through the hull/deck joint is definately someplace that extra attention should be applied.  On my boat that was a HORRIBLE looking place, it is quite clear to me why my boat was leaking there.

I found the stern rub rail to be the hardest to get into position.  I did that one first.  The two side rails were simple to get into place.  The oven trick gave me several inches of slack to work with when positioning them.

With any luck, the joint will last another 25 years.

[gmilburn]

In this warm climate (FL), the rub rail warms well in the sun.  We had a new one and left it in one piece, fastened one bolt through each side of the stern first, centering it at the rear (stretching as we could, side-to-side before fastening), notched the corners to permit a bend, then stretched and fastened each side up to the bow and finished by bolting all points required.

We had started with the 38' piece as recommended by Hutchins and, as they predicted, had several inches left to cut off (at the bow, the way we did it).  We found it stretched better than we expected just warming it in the sun, on a not-too-hot  (FL) morning.