Senior Alert...tacking with a CP-16

[Tadpole]

Do any of you other seasoned citizens have trouble changing sides while tacking?  The seats on my CP-16 are only 9.25" high, and I have a heck of a time getting from one side to the other during tacks.   I'm thinking about building a "bridge" if you will, between the seats. I generally don't mind sailing on the low side...better visibility, but sometimes you just need to get on the high side.   

I'll probably use a 51" length of 1" x 12" (reinforced to handle the 20.5" span between the seats), rounded edges and highly waxed, (or a slick surface applied) so I can just slide from one side to the other.  Has anyone done this, or have any suggestions?  As always, input greatly appreciated. 

Tadpole

[Craig]

Just change sides while the boat is in mid tack an still flat. That is what this old salt does.

[Tadpole]

Just change sides while the boat is in mid tack an still flat. That is what this old salt does.

Craig...
Thanks for your comment, but I can't, not even in the slip...knees are shot...on to plan B.

Tadpole

[capt_nemo]

Tadpole,

Now I understand - "... but I can't, not even in the slip...knees are shot...".

Your "bridge" sounds like a good idea. "Necessity is the mother of invention."

Recommend you consider the following in your conceptual design.

1. Incorporate a handrail all along the AFT edge of the bridge to assist you in making the transfer from side to side.

2. Make sure the bridge is locked solidly in place and not able to move unexpectedly on you during side to side transfer. If you have cockpit storage lockers consider using the hinge fasteners to attach some kind of lock in place device for the bridge. Failing that, perhaps something on the bridge ends that overlap the cockpit coamings on both sides.

Hope this helps.

capt_nemo

P.S. At 70, I have two (2) bad knees also, but with medication not that limiting.

[crazycarl]

tadpole,

think about putting a sliding seat on the bridge.  it would need some friction to keep you stable in case of an accidental jibe, but the sliding seat would place less side stress on your knees.

this would be a nice addition for parapelegic sailors.

CC

p.s.  if the center bowed aft, it would be even easier.
wish i had the time to draw something up, so many ideas in my head.

[Craig]

I can visualize a seat 12" or so wide running athwartships seat back to seat back resting on the seats with a flange  underneath that is the width of the footwell. That would allow it to move fore or aft but the flange would stabilize it. A thin strip of rubber underneath on each side of the seat would prevent unwanted slippage fore/aft. Would be simple to make and easily stowed. I can identify with the knee problem!

[carry-on]

Just thinking about your situation. My 16 has mid boom sheeting for the main. Some days, my knees are not cooperating, I grab the upper block at the boom and get a little leverage to help the shift during the tack or jibe. The three part line or the block provide a descent hand hold. The boom is close to midships in both operations so the upper block is handy.
To determine if this would help, you could remove the main and wrap a line around the boom at a convenient location.  Leave a 6 to 8 inch pig tail with a stopper knot at the bottom. Then try shifting sides  using the pig tail for a hand hold. If this works, you could install a boom bail and pig tail at the preferred location or you could go to mid boom sheeting and a traveler which provide some good benefits for sailing.
Not a good photo to show what I am talking about, but maybe you will get the idea.

[Tadpole]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions.  I'll be incorporating several of your ideas when I build a prototype this weekend.  Is this a great forum or what!!!

Tadpole

[Winkle]

Hi Tadpole,
How comfortable would you be sitting in the cockpit centre, more or less directly in front of the tiller? On some big boats (admittedly with a wheel,) the helmsman's seat is a convex bridge that spans the footwell, so that at any level of heel the helmsman can choose a spot on the arch that provides a spot to sit vertically. This might be too big to rig in a CP16, but if it could be fitted it might cut down on the amount of sliding you need to do.
Rod

[Duckie]

I kinda like this idea.  I envision a plywood box that would rest on the cockpit sole and extend over the seats on which a commercial bass boat seat could be mounted on a track.  It wouldn't  need to be attached, merely wedged into the seat fronts.  The swivel action that is part of the seat itself would provide for easy reach to the tiller on either tack.  It would be upholstered so you could forget cockpit cushions, also it would provide good back support.  It should be an easy project and not too expensive either. 

Probably the thing I like least about my CP 16 is the fact that the seats are so low.  I have a pretty bad back so hopping from side to side is a bit of a problem for me too.  So, I actually feel your pain.  This is an interesting problem, and I am sure that a simple and elegant solution is to be had for it. 

Al

[Tim Gardner]

I think there have been some mighty fine ideas "floated" in this thread.  All of which may solve the Bad Knee syndrome many (almost all of us considering our mean age of 60+ on this site)(the "mean" pun was intended) have to endure.

I'm about to offer an alternative to the above:  Don't make any alterations or build contraptions to relieve the pain issue while sailing.  The knees aren't any better onshore, are they?  If you have trouble with knee pain while sailing, you probably have trouble walking to the head at 2:30am as well.

The Admiral, Buddy the Seadog and I were attending the Strictly Sail show in Annapolis last October.  I was hobbling around with my "bad Knee syndrome", not sure how long I could stay as a result, when a voice from my left said, "Knees hurt?"  I thought "DUUH, how could you tell", but said "yup! they sure do".

Now, I was scheduled for knee replacement surgery in January,   He asked if I could spare 20 minutes, pointing to a nice welcoming chair in his booth. I said' What for?" already taking a seat.  He proceeded to show me a type of electro-massage device the size of a in-pod, said it may help relieve the pain in my knee.  I was doubtful, but was willing to try anything that offered relief.

He put the electrodes on either side of my knee and handed me the device saying " turn up the intensity as high as possible til it hurts, then back it down one setting.  So I did. Up, Up, Up, Up, Up, Up, Up, Up, then Down one to a setting of Eight.  It felt wonderful!  He came to check on my progress and was startled at the setting I was on, and said" you must really be in pain! Most people would be jumping out of their skin on that setting!"

Well, this has been a long post, I know, but I have to tell you I got up and spent the next four hours walking around that show in no pain whatsoever!  I went back to his booth an bought one of the machines.  I used it two times a day for the next two months and once a day for the third.  

I went to my Orthopedist for a pre-surgery consultation without limping, and jogged in place for him on the spot.  He was stunned!  Asked me what I had been doing for my knee, so I showed it to him.  He said if it's working, keep doing it.  He cancelled my surgery, saying when I can't stand the pain again, come back.

I use it two-three times a week now, still no pain compared to last year.  Because of that my activity level is back where it should be and I have dropped the thirty pounds I put on when the knee hurt like hell.

The unit wasn't cheap, and you can probably find less expensive ones, but you can check it out at www.utopiagear.com

Just my 2 cents.

TG

[Duckie]

I have two mechanical hips, so me and crippling pain are old friends.  It was my bad back that forced me into giving up on canoe camping in favor of sailing though.  It is funny that almost all of the people I meet at sailing events are shall we say not spring chickens.  If I had realized what I was missing when I was younger, I would have done whatever it took to get my hands on a sailboat and get going in this pastime.  When I was building my Weekender, I made many adjustments and modifications to the plans to accommodate my many orthopedic shortcomings.  I am still making changes to the boat in that regard today.  I think it is fun.  I also agree with Tim.  Never give up!  There is too much fun to be had to let pain get in the way.

Al

[Tadpole]

Duckie,

Thanks for your email...very inspiring.  My wife and I were also avid canoeists and canoe campers for many years.  Our sailing and canoeing overlapped for a while until her knees got so bad she couldn't get in and out of the canoe. We find many similarities between canoeing and sailing, especially with the gunk-holing we do in the sailboat.  We absolutely love them both!  

It is the tacking with the low seats on the Compac 16 that is making things more difficult for me right now.  That said, I too WILL find a way to make it work.  Sailing is just so relaxing and so enjoyable.  And, as you and Tim both stated... "Never give up! There is too much fun to be had to let pain get in the way".  I'll drink to that!

Tadpole

[Joseph]

Maybe someone has already suggested this... and maybe it won't work for everyone... but what I have done in my case, is to fasten each end of a 20'-30' line to the grab-rails on the roof of the cabin at both sides of the companionway, and let the line hang loose inside the cockpit. Grabbing the line closer to the side opposite to the one I'd be sitting is of great help when trying to rise from the seat, particularly if the boat is heeling and I am caught sitting to leeward...

J.

[ChuckO]

Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation  TENs Units, as they are known, have been around for 25 years or more and have come down in price considerably.  If you don't know for sure if it will work for you .... try one out... probably at no charge.  Used to sell these things years ago. and they do work!

Expensive??  $$$$$   not in the big picture ...  4-5 tanks of gas for the auto or less.. that's pretty cheap for pain relief.

ChuckO'
CP 16-2 Carpe Diem
Charleston, SC