HideAway gets a refit

[HideAway]

We brought the HideAway home recently to fix all or at least most of those little and not so little things boats develop. This will be a long term project to increase our comfort and safety.

Most of the issues are below deck.  The most perplexing is  the gel coat peeling off the cabin roof and sides.   I'd like to make the cabin look like a wood boat below, but am not sure how.    Has anyone tried to put up a liner for the top, I'm thinking of cedar planks - if so what did you use and how is it working etc.   

Please have  a look at this video and let me know what you think.

http://youtu.be/jXPjLzBJLrk   

Thanks  Matt

[BruceW]

Hi, cool video to show what the situation is. I have an older CP 23 also. Have you thought of the type of textured paint they put on ceilings? I don't know how to do it, or if it is a PITA, but if you didn't want just smooth, that might be good.

My floor is not peeling, but it is dull and worn. I'll be interested your approach to that.

I'm sure you'll get some good ideas. I'll be following the thread in case I can learn something!

Bruce

[brackish]

Big project Matt hope it all goes well for you.  Some thoughts from someone who has been there before:

I really like the plastic beadboard ceiling that ComPac uses.  It is essentially maintenance free and so easy to keep clean.  The penetrations are neatly handled with acorn nuts and trim washers and countersink pan heads where necessary.  The only thing I don't like about what Compac did with that is the flexible trim molding to the sides, it is really cheap looking and I plan to retrim mine with teak this spring.  However, that would be my first choice even if I had to put it in with several pieces and use a molding to seam cover.  Solid HPL would also be in this class and can be rolled to get it in the space.  Essentially, that is what Compac uses today in the forward cabin on the hull sides with the teak strips for decoration.  My second choice would be adhesively applied non woven fabric (the kind used on compacs today in the forward cabin).  I've installed this before using spray contact adhesive and it really comes out nice, however if you do get a leak it will blacken in that spot and is hard to clean.  I've actually used the exact same material that Compac uses but on a different boat many years ago.  I think many builders use the same thing.  My third choice would be an aggressive scrape and sand, and white latex gloss enamel that has mold inhibiter in it, the type used for bathrooms and other wet areas.  My last choice would be wood strips simply because of the seasonal and in your case daily contraction and expansion that "real" wood goes through.  As a long time woodworker, I know how significant this is and am at a loss as to how to install it without it periodically buckling or splitting.  Also I like the idea of a really light colored ceiling for light refraction.

Plywood panels such as the teak and holly used in the sole or teak veneer for the side panels do not exhibit the expansion/contraction characteristic of solid wood, so safe to use anywhere with a little gap to the adjoining side trimmed with a quarter round trim.  Just remember not to glue "real" wood cross grain, i.e. two pieces that are perpendicular to each other, that will cause problems.

Good luck, ask questions frequently.  I hope you will keep a running video log as you are known to do.

[deisher6]

Hey Matt:
Really great video. 

As I watched it I was thinking that the greatest thing about your ComPac is that you obviously sail it.  I recently helped a live aboard move a 'free' Pearson 26.  The previous owner had switched to a SanJuan 23....he mentioned that what you really need is a 23-36 foot sail boat.  That is given any sail boat,  work on it so it looks good from 23-26 feet and then sail it as much as possible.

I recently replaced one of the side cabin panels on our C-27 using 1/4 inch teak plywood.  It was fairly simple, of course I had a pattern, but the installation was pretty easy.  If I was starting from scratch I would not use teak, but some lighter wood like birch.

Good luck on your renovation.

regards charlie

[Tim Gardner]

Hey Matt,  You may want to contact the folks at Hutchins.  They have all the teak/plywood veneer wood pieces for the 23 you can purchase pre-cut.  The interior flaking you are having occurred on my 19's sliding hatch, cockpit hatches and fuel compartment cover. It's just paint.  I repainted mine with a good gloss white house paint exterior enamel 9 years ago and it still looks great.  Most of it pressure washed off ( the old stuff I mean, really messy job ) and no chemicals were required.

TG

[HideAway]

Ok Brackish you've convinced me that natural wood isn't the best choice at least for the cabin top.  Painting after a good scraping seems to be what others are doing on this old of a boat.  I'm concerned that vinyl or head liner might come down or stain like you mentioned.   One of the responses on my utube channel suggested Rustoleum deck paint that is used for wood patio decks.  I met another builder at a Chesapeake Light crafft event in St Petersburg who used a similar product from Home depot.   He said it is much less costly than real boat paint, looks pretty good at 20 feet - like Charlie mentioned, and he doesn't worry about damages.  I saw his boat and had to agree. He used it on the hull of his wooden trawler, the interior and exposed deck was house paint.  Considering that HideAways interior hull is rubbed on house paint and it has held up for well over a decade this might be a good answer.  The paint along the sides by the ports is professional artist grade oil.  The paint has not deteriorated but the gelcoat has. 
One of our club members asked why not re gel coat -- I've never worked with gel coat so I don't know if this is realistic -- Has anyone else?  I have looked at textured paint used on home ceilings - this shows some promise but as often as I bump into the cabin top I certainly don't want a very rough surface.   I've been looking at older 23s for sale recently but it seems they are all painted bright white, probably because they are for sale - We like a warmer look. 
Still considering using thin cedar T&G for the sides at this point.  If I seal them I'm thinking they won't stain and since the pieces are small they may not warp or split.   It is hard though to convince myself removing ports that are not leaking is a good idea...
Bruce,  my floor is shot - it is not repairable.  I ve been looking at the vinyl or wood overlay floor planks  - some have a bit of texture but most are very smooth, which would be a trip hazard.  We won t tackle that project until the cabin top is resolved.   The plan now is to start scraping and preparing those surfaces.  The summer heat is not far away - it was 80 today - working in the cabin during the summer is not going to happen!

[HideAway]

I was on an older Cal 34 this weekend whining about peeling gelcoat when my friend suggested I have a look at the head and v berth His gelcoat comes off in large sheets - one about 8 x 8.  In all cases it peeled to the fiber glass -- I was much relieved to find he has the same gelcoat problem!  He solved it in the main cabin, all 6 foot tall of it by using  what looked like plastic white lighting panels outlined but not supported by wood trim.  Really looked great.  He tried re gelcoating without success.  I'm still leaning towards thick paint - like tinted home ceiling paint.  First  I thought maybe i'd use the deck paint - interlux but at $50/quart I'll save it for the deck.  Please don't tell HideAway I spent time with another boat -- You know how these 23s get sometimes:}

[MacGyver]

Just a note, typically when I find a boat with a delam issue (delamination of different layers, but a typical is gelcoat and fiberglass) it is typically due to a misbonding reason. like for instance no sanding between the gelcoat and the fiberglass. Also, I have seen chemical bond issues which would be a missed window of opportunity situation when first done.

I would make sure that you remove the gelcoat, and then sand to give the paint a adhesion surface. I wouldnt trust a no sand chemical or any of that.

Good luck with the project Hideaway!

I love seeing these ole Compacs become new again. Deep down the boats soul is smiling from ear to ear at the upcoming work!

At work today, I will ask the guys what they have seen in boats and try to remember to post things they know worked over the years.

Mac

[HideAway]

I've noticed some of the glass under the the gelcoat is shiny, especially in corners.  Other areas though don't seem to be, but the weave of the fiberglass cloth is rough.   For the most part I have been scraping rather than sanding.  A lot of micro fibers of glass come along with it -- sounds like I had better hit it with a orbit sander before painting though- not a pleasant thought!  Matt   

[lochinvar]

Matt, I have an early model 23, I've done a bit of work on the inside. I will take some pics and maybe it will help you decide on some directions to go. Next post will be some pics.
-Shawn  with S/V KELSI

[lochinvar]

Went out an took pics of the inside and ended up with about 30 pics. Lots of wood.
Some things I've added:
-An articulated nav table wit LED lighting, folds flat with a magazine rack on the back.
-A fold down vanity mirror.
-A plexiglass door for the electrical panels.
-Tray over the well that has two enclosed deep cycle batteries.
-all wiring goes to a panel with one master battery cutoff switch.
-insulated walls that block off the back/cockpit lockers from the cabin.
-All the wood had to be "recovered" or saved. It was not very good in some places. I had to work a long time to get it to shine
-Wood "bows" to accent the front chain locker with a small curtain to block the view. Two bows are formed bows with teak and spruce with slots. Gotta see the pics.
-Fan that folds out of the way but pretty much swivels and cools circulates the whole area
-All lights are LED. (except my backup kerosene lamp)
-There are some geeky offset blue led accent lighting that lights the cabin sole. You can leave those on with the battery switch in the off position. (Sorta like lava-lamp accent thingie-ish for a nite lite.)
-4" SS solar-powered vent where the plugged deck hole is ---This one thing will probably alleviate your inside humidity accumulation problem.

Problem is - it is now very late and I forgot I have to upload all this stuff to somewhere and forgot how. I'll have to go look.

Sorry, I promise I'll finish tomorrow.

You guys will probably kill me for posting all those...Heh.

[lochinvar]

-An articulated nav table wit LED lighting, folds flat with a magazine rack on the back.

Lifting it up...

Stowed against with paper/chart holder on back...

LED lighting - white...

LED lighting - red...

[lochinvar]

Continuing - more pics of the wood inside

--All the wood had to be "recovered" or saved. It was not very good in some places. I had to work a long time to get it to shine

Looking aft from the starboard settee:

Under all cushions and the overheads were all painted with white latex semi-gloss. Found that stuff really holds on good. I bought mine at Home Depot. You can also see the insulation panels blocking the rear cockpit locker spaces off. Looking aft from port settee:

Looking forward from port settee into V-berth; you can see I put carpet up on the sides of the bulkhead in the V-berth. This is for insulation and aesthetics. You can also see the cabin woodwork. These wood panels were already in place, but very dry. They looked bad. They are looking better now IMHO.

A bit more of the V-berth. Like yours, My chain locker was open. I put the wood "bows" there for looks. I always wanted to try to form teak and spruce similar to the the sides of a dinghy with those slots. That is what I was looking for. You can use the slots to hang up things. Note that I later put up SS hangers every 2 ft or so on the trim on top of the carpeted bulkheads. Not a big fan of the hammocks but they work OK for now. You can see the SS vent sticking down a little on the bow-deck underside. It had a plug in it that leaked. No more leak and solar powered vent. Much better.

[lochinvar]

Okay, this will be my last post on this unless Matt indicates he wants to see more. In retrospect, I feel like I am hijacking his thread so I will try to stick with his request for ideas for wood down below...

From the V-berth looking aft with the overhead.


In the V-berth looking to the port side of my "closet" and the paneling.


Here is the vanity mirror "deployed". Harrrr. Deployed. Sounds technical doesn't it? Previous pic it was stowed.


Here is the port-aft-V-berth bulkhead with the 12V fan stowed.


Here is the fan deployed.


Hope these pics give you some idears for Hideaway. I, personally, love the wood. That's my vote. I have a bunch of time in, with a boat that already had it installed, tho the PO's didn't take care of it (at least the way I do...). Yes, all the wood has been varnished multiple times now, including the sole. My sole wasn't coming apart like yours but it had two layers of carpet that the thread ground down and left the carpet backside thread pattern on the wood. That took some sanding and varnishing. Yeah, I use a rug but don't have to.

I did a bunch of wiring too and it is all hooked up and hidden away. I wouldn't call everything perfect because there is a limit with how much money I can throw at it. So, for instance, the new wiring is not perfect Yachting Color standards. However, it is ALL marine, tinned, correct gauge (probably over gauge in most places) wiring. My mantra for the wiring and little gadgets is "make it easy on yourself if things are added in the future" so there is room for expansion on most of my terminal boards and panels.

Fair Winds...

[HideAway]

Shawn Wow - thanks for posting the photos -    We really like your hanging closet- I may make mine wider since we don t sleep in the v berth.  Did you install the head liner?  The cabin top is going to be the biggest issue for me.   I left the anchor rode area open because of ongoing problems with the nav lights.  Course thats been solved for a couple of years now so maybe I should include that project too.  I have noticed several boats have the round ports opening horizontally - Is there any particular reason for doing this?  Ours open vertically.  Your chart table is interesting - but I m not clear on how it works.  We have been using the hatch board on knees approach.  most of our chart work is done in the cockpit.   I noticed your solar vent is on the forward deck rather than hatch cover.  That area of our deck sees heavy use - hank on sails and anchor work - have you had any issues with that location?   

I saw a Com Pac 16 at our sailing club with some really nice trim paint on the forward deck - I ll post some photos as soon as I figure out how again

and don t worry about taking over the thread -- this is great info for everyone. Matt