Treating her bottom?

[waterwheels]

Ok the subject line should catch a little attention. So now that I got you here and you are reading this, here is the question.
I have a brand new Eclipse, never been in the water. The owners handbook instructs me; if I am going to leave the boat in the water to seal the bottom of the hull with an epoxy sealer before anti foul paint, then keep the anti foul in good condition re-applying when needed.
I am planning on taking the boat out after most outing and only leaving it in for maybe a week at a time during vacations. My thought was to wax the hull with good quality wax and keep it clean.
I don't know much about epoxy coatings.

What should be done to protect my investment when dry sailing?

Comments welcome.

Don

[Bob23]

Well, Don- that did get my attention. But I'm afraid I don't know. Why not call Hutchins about this? Is your water fresh, salt, location? All variables.
Bob23

[MacGyver]

Salt or fresh, then I can write my 2 cents.

Mac

[waterwheels]

I will be sailing mostly in fresh water in Ontario's Great Lakes. The owners manual also indicates  "boats blister more readily in fresh water than salt water because the vapour transmission mechanism is not impeded by the larger salt molecules" and I alway thought salt water was harder on boats.....go figure.

Don

[Bob23]

I always thought the same but have read in many places that fresh is harsher. I only worry about barnacles down here in salt water NJ. And I'm moored for 6 months at a time.
Bob23

[MacGyver]

If you plan to trailer sail, just wax it and launch her. Even at that week, your boat will sit out long enough to dry back out, which is actually the main issue.
You guys are worried about osmotic blistering. But lets all keep in mind about manufacturers blisters, and also blisters from the inside that project to the outside (gravity works folks!!) so blisters areent really  a big deal unless you have manufacturers blisters..... then some of those jobs are a big deal.....

Since you do plan to basically trailer sail, just be sure to wax it (if you want, it will help to keep it from discoloring) or use that poli glow maybe (I am using it on the top sides of boats...... nice coating, maybe it will work for this?? Not sure, just a idea for you) and if you decide to keep it in longer than 2 to 3 weeks at a time or do that several times, I would bottom paint it then.

Mac

[relamb]

I bought a new boat which I trailer sailed for 10 years, in both fresh and saltwater.  It was typically in the water 3-10 days at a time. Worst case would be a two week vacation.
No bottom paint, and rarely even any wax on the bottom.  No problems at all.  The only issue would be scum at the waterline, that's a good place to have a heavy coat of wax.   If it were bad when I hauled out I would wipe it off with a sponge, otherwise just hose it off.   If I had been in salt water I would find the nearest self-service car wash bay and wash it down after hauling it out.
I would not mess with bottom paint unless the boat were in the water, sitting still, for 3-4 weeks at a time unattended.
I had a much worse problem with bugs splattered all over the boat from trailering, as well as goop flung up from the road.  That's why you need the wax!

[waterwheels]

So far looks like a good waxing will do the job. I can relate to the bugs while trailering. Waxing does seem to make cleaning much easier.

Don

[capt_nemo]

waterwheels,

Couple of coats of good paste wax and NO BOTTOM PAINT! Works for me with my 2010 Sun Cat - almost 5 years now.

Recommend Collinite No. 885 Heavy Duty Paste Fleetwax.

capt_nemo

[Eagleye]

Gents,
When we were looking for our Eclipse I found one in Maine but she had a bad case of bottom blisters.    I don't know what the conditions were that caused them but I believe she was kept in a cold fresh water lake. I believe it is still for sale. 
The previously owned 06 Eclipse that we did purchase in upstate NY came with the epoxy barrier coat and anti-fouling paint that was put on by the local dealer.  At this point the paint is wearing away and is looking shabby.  Much like Don we keep her on the trailer when not sailing, mostly in fresh water, so I might ask what your thoughts are about repainting and what type of paint to use. 

Thanks,
-Allen



[/URL]

[Bob23]

Allen:
  I use Interlux Aqua water based bottom paint. The boat can stay out of the water for extended periods of time and the paint still can kind of reactivate when put back in. Or so they say- I'll find out this week when "Koinonia" is hauled this week or next.
Bob23

[Vectordirector]

Allen, you appear to have more coverage than I did when I got my boat.  It would be a tough call for me to say looking at the picture what I would do.  I can tell you this:

When I bought my boat a couple of years ago, the black paint had faded away about 40% of coverage and I could see the grey barrier coat under it.  The grey looked great so when I had the boat detailed, the guy sprayed on something he uses on cars for grease removal.  It took the black stuff right off.  All he could get to while on the trailer.  The epoxy coat looked great and I decided to just leave it at that and it looks great after 2 seasons of dry storage mast up at the Yacht Club in Lake Geneva.  I've launched it about 20 times and the bottom looks great.  I'd see how much top coat you can remove if the barrier coat looks good underneath.  It is really the only way to figure out what to do next.  Trailer sailing in fresh cold water wouldn't require anything other than a solid barrier coat.  Even that is probably overkill, but once it is on, I'd leave it if it is in good shape.  Removal to a bare gelcoat is a nasty, expensive, dangerous and tedious process.  If you decide to have it painted, local sailors know what works.  Ask them.  Everyone else is just a salesman.   YMMV.   IMHO,  etc...  I don't want to start a paint flame war.  I know what has worked for me.  Nothing else.  And I'm glad I didn't have to get it painted.  It ain't cheap.  I get the looking shabby part, that is why I had it removed.  Barrier coat is holding up well.  The Madame looks great as always.  Come play with us in SW Florida some time.  Sailing's great!


Vectordirector

[MacGyver]

Although Vector has a neat idea, from the professionals stand point, the epoxy barrier coat does not have any kind of UV protection, and it is being broken down as it is exposed to the elements especially the sun. How quick and how bad will that happen, that is anyone's guess......
Yes, I guess you could call me a salesman for Interlux, although in reality I make NOTHING by spreading my sermon of Interlux products on here, so I have no gains, therefore keeping me somewhat neutral on the subject. I use many products, but I love Interlux products because of the ease of usage and the way the paint works overall. My customers dont have to be me to use them.


On to what I would do in your position. I would see about washing the bottom and scrubbing some, then following up with a good sanding. You will have to sand less when less is left on the boat.
After sanding, power wash or scrub the bottom again, and when scrubbing use heavy dawn soap, it will help carry the dust off. If the bottom is in good shape as far as the current barrier coat looks, just leave it and paint with Interlux Micron. It is meant to be out for extended times. Also if using that paint, handle it with kids gloves as you put the boat back on the trailer. It is a ablative paint, and will rub off.

If the barrier coat is in bad shape, Thin, etc, I would run a couple coats new on it and then antifoul it as above.

Ask Crazy Carl how he likes his. I did his bottom job, and I think he was happy with it. I do  agree with Vectors words of asking sailors in the area, but also would like to throw in, the guy at the marina that sprays the most boats off, has a good idea of a good product too, because his job was easier thanks to that bottom paint......If he knows what paints everyone uses like my guy does at my marina, he would prove to be the most valuable source.

Mac

Mac

[Vectordirector]

Hey Mac,  I didn't mean to imply anything.  You are a great asset to this forum with your vast experience in boat repair, painting, and marina experience.  One look at your boat and anyone would know how good you are.  I'm glad you jumped in here, it is always good to hear from a professional who also sails. Your ability to post of your experience in these areas is invaluable.  The subject tends to lean toward flame wars and I don't mean to go there. With so many products to choose from, all we can go by is everyone sharing their experiences here.  Again, sorry to imply anything, that was not my intent.   My post was more aimed at the manufacturers advertising hype machine promising the perfect product. 

Thanks for the heads up.  I assumed the barrier coat was more permanent and offered ultimate lifetime protection, I need to study this more.   I have zero experience with bottom paints and just tried to give my experience with this boat in this particular area of the country.  When the guy was detailing the boat, the black ablative paint suddenly started coming off, so I figured I'd have him remove it all and see what it looked like.  The dealer I called said they used Trinidad.  Which one they didn't say although I know the boat started out in salt water.   It was nasty black stuff that would come off the rudder all over my hands when I installed/removed the rudder.  I'm glad to be rid of most of it.  No sanding was needed, just a roll of paper towels and a big trash bag. Very little of it wound up on my driveway.   I'll soon see how the barrier coat holds up in SW Florida on a lift.  The sun is much more intense here than in WI.  If it starts to go, I'll have a local pro (like Mac) look at it. A $$$ bottom job isn't in the budget right now so I'll see how it goes the next few months. 

I guess my point, after some study, is that different waters and how the boat is used require different paints.  If one decides to paint the bottom, consult LOCAL Pros and sailors who take the time to find out how the boat will be used and know what works locally for that use.  I'm sure Mac would agree.  And, more importantly, I would heed his counsel as he knows how you plan to sail the boat.

I'm just a retired air traffic controller, what do I know?  I know enough to listen to the pros.  And pay for their services.  Unless you like doing that sort of stuff.   Not for me. 

Vectordirector   

[MacGyver]

Hey Mac,  I didn't mean to imply anything.  .............................  Again, sorry to imply anything, that was not my intent.   My post was more aimed at the manufacturers advertising hype machine promising the perfect product. 

I'm just a retired air traffic controller, what do I know?  I know enough to listen to the pros.  And pay for their services.  Unless you like doing that sort of stuff.   Not for me. 

Vectordirector   

I didn't take offense at all, I did have a idea who you were mainly directing it too, but just wanted to make sure I still had solid ground to stand on since I am in the business. There are a lot of "Professionals" out there, but a lot of them arent that professional really..... there is 4 marinas on the lake I am on, 2 of the 3 are big boat harbors (big boat on our lake that is...) and some of those guys act like pros, but are actually just some guys that know enough to make trouble (which is why with customers I always site technical information)

Vector, for your boat, Trinidad is the paint type you probably had, and yes, it is nasty. It also has a 70 to 78 percent cuporuus oxide  which is the worst that I have seen on the market. That stuff is bad for us humans. I am surprised they dont outlaw it. BUT it does work well! Heck, that is the active ingredient in most paints. That is why I am a fan of interlux, it typically has between 20 to 35 percent in it, but not all paints have that amount in their product line, some have none.

It came off your boat so readily because what that guy used (I too was in the autobody field, and was a detailer for a few years) interacts really poorly with antifouling paints, which was good for you. We had to be careful on boats, otherwise it would remove many of the bottom paints almost without being promoted like with a stiff brush, or etc.

Trinidad at our lake is good, it has ablative features, which is nice, then also the chemical backup to shed the growth. When using it you MUST USE A RESPIRATOR. and when removing it, the same. I hate that paint. But as far as it coming off on your hands, the paint I paint my boat with does the same thing. And it is a different type altogether.

This all boils down though to just like you said, catch up with local pros, and pick their brains. They see more bottoms than a normal boater would, so they have a leg up on it all. If you ever need work done, make sure to ask for work they have done, or talk to those you know have had work done there. That is one good thing I have with my boat, I can say, "look at my boat, let me know if you think this would qualify me to work on yours."

Thanks for all the compliments Vector, I really appreciate that! And again, no offense taken!

Mac