Battery location on CP19

[Michael]

Here's a question for you electrically-minded people.

When I bought my 82 CP19 last fall, the former owner (an industrial electrician) had torn out all the electric wiring and had not replaced it. He had been sailing her for a few years with AA and D cell powered lights, radio, etc. He left no trace of where the boat battery had been. I am assuming she had originally been delivered with a battery and wiring.

The most sensible location for an on-board battery seems to be just forward of the compression post. There is a hatch there for access to the space under the forepeak. But the area immediately fore of the compression post has a small foamed-in plywood box that might fit a motorcycle battery. Is this original to the boat? Where do other CP19s have the onboard battery located? I am thinking of removing this small box and cutting out some of the foam to install a larger box for the battery.

What say you?

Fair winds, MM in Wonder

[crazycarl]

Our '85 19 has a factory "shelf" in the starboard cockpit locker where the battery was mounted.

I moved them along with a charger in front of the compression post.

[Michael]

Our '85 19 has a factory "shelf" in the starboard cockpit locker where the battery was mounted.

I moved them along with a charger in front of the compression post.

Wow, Carl, great photo, worth a thousand words anytime. I see that your boat doesn't have the foam fill there that mine has. Have you removed the foam to facilitate your work?

Thanks for the photo and info.

Fair winds, MM in Wonder

[crazycarl]

yes, i removed the foam for ease of access, but i replaced it after the install was complete.

i used expandable foam and put more back than i took out.

the battery box is completely surrounded by foam.

the foam is for structural purposes rather than flotation.

cc

[skip1930]

Battery box on a CP-19.
Starboard side under settee with a plywood tray fiber glassed onto the bottom and onto the plywood end of the starboard side quarter birth.
Tray touches that large foam block used to stiffen the cockpit sole and proceeds toward the starboard hull curve, attached to the end of the birth.
Wood blocks under the tray follow the curve. Do not mess with this foam carpet covered block under the cockpit sole.

Remember battery has to be contained within a Coast Guard approved battery box strapped down to the tray and terminals must be covered.
I use covered terminal strips so I only have two wires + and - on the battery terminals.

Any other foam is not for floatation, strength or structure ... it's there for sound deadening when beating into the wind in a chop. Grind it away for fit if you like.

Though I do like Carl's midship double battery box. Good idea. And it opens up the area under the starboard side settee. Watch out for hydrogen gas. Exploding hydrogen gas has put a few submarines on the bottom and cooked off a few torpedo's.

skip.

[Citroen/Dave]

Buy or fabricate a box with a locking lid.  My Wal-Mart purchased battery box came with a somewhat loose lid and a locking wrap-around-the-box tie down strap. The somewhat loose lid promotes ventilation. If the battery explodes for any reason, you do not want acid flying in your face.  I think that strap will satisfy a Coast Guard examination for thrown acid prevention.

[Michael]

Thank you crazycarl, skip, and Citroen/Dave for valuable information - I guess you guys don't want me to have the pleasure of making all the mistakes myself.

Carl, how does the additional weight forward affect sailing? Also, it looks to me that you have hold-downs for two batteries. If so, are they both wired into the common circuit, or does each battery have its own purpose?

Maybe this is off-topic, but

Skip, does your dog like to sail? Dave, what model Citroen?

Fair winds, MM

[crazycarl]

michael,

i have 2 group 27 batteries with a marine battery switch.

both serve the same purpose. 

on long cruises i use battery #1 on odd days, and Battery #2 on even days.

when i'm using one battery, the other is being topped off by a solar panel.

i rewired the entire boat using anchor, fully tinned, marine wire.

i went overboard using 12 gauge for general wiring and 4 gauge from the batteries to the switch.  (i had it from a previous project)



as for the effect of the weight on sailing,  the boat cuts through the waves rather than pounding.  since most of our supplies are stored in the cockpit lockers, she still sits on her lines with 2 passengers in the cockpit.

i was also going to install an 8 gallon water tank forward of the batteries, however,  talking with rich at the strictly sail show in chicago, he thought that would be too much weight forward.  now i'm thinking of installing 2- 5 gallon water tanks just aft of the quarter berths.  one on each side, connected by a hose at the bottom so the water can seek it's own level.

sure, the water could move from one tank to the other when heeling, but the hose will be no larger than 1/2", so i don't see a problem.


CC

[skip1930]

" My Wal-Mart purchased battery box came with a somewhat loose lid and a locking wrap-around-the-box tie down strap "
The above is the definition of Coast Guard legal.

" Carl, how does the additional weight forward affect sailing? "
The more weight forward, the better. That's where the hull is widest.

" Skip, does your dog like to sail? "
No Logan dog never did like to sail. He was put to sleep after 12 years and 8 months on the day four brave Americans lost their lives in Benghazi.

"  ... the water could move from one tank to the other when heeling, but the hose will be no larger than 1/2", so i don't see a problem. "
Crazy, ever see a semi truck cattle hauler when all the cows lean to one side? The trailer rolls over on the road. And vents? Never mind, that's only 65 pounds per side when full. Thought? Where does the port-a-potty go with all the wire and electrical panel in the way?

skip.

[moonlight]

The best favor that guy ever did for you was not re-wire the boat.  If I went through the trouble to make a million accounts or whatever is required to post pictures here, I could share some scary s&*@ done by industrial guys to boats.  Side story - I walked off a boat that had been rewired by a nuke electrician and his buddy who's sole qualification was that he was from Annapolis.  Or maybe that was the secondary qualification, the first being that he lived in an RV and worked for beer.  They had "invisible" (unable to see the posts) batteries in lockers covered by spaghetti wiring.

Lots of good ideas for locations.

There is NOT a requirement that it be in a box.
There IS a requirement that it not move more than 1" in any direction (with a force of 90# applied for one minute).
There IS a requirement that provision be made to capture spilled electrolyte (this is where battery trays have function).  Not full secondary containment in case of container cracking, just spilled electrolyte.
There IS a requirement that the posts be protected so that nothing sparks/arcs/falls on them making connection.  I think I already told my hacksaw blade story in another post, but could always repeat it upon request.

Almost universally, I only install AGM batteries.  No electrolyte to spill anyway, but the real benefit is the minimal self discharge and lack of maintenance.  But sailors, some, check battery fluids.  People that pay me to work on their boats, don't.

Use only tinned copper wire with proper captive crimp connectors.  follow the ABYC color code.  (Handily found in any West Marine catalog; about all the catalog is good for, but it's one thing!).  Use overcurrent protection.  Within 7" of the battery unless secondarily protected (sheathed) and on each spur circuit.

(ABYC Certified Marine Electrician)

[skip1930]

Foam in the bow wow wow Extra hatch in vee birth

Ground away foam for 2 inch through the hull fittings. You can just make out the cement of the keel.




Tired of seeing the masthead lamp [Steaming lamp] lit at the wrong times?

[crazycarl]

skip,

the picture was taken before the wiring was finished.

the wires are neatly run and don't interfere with the porti-potti.

cc

[Citroen/Dave]

Michael,

I have owned 14 Citroens in the last 45 years. I used to buy them when Americans would try to find someone to unload with a broken part like a failed water pump.  Most cost me between $200 and $900.  Invariably, sooner or later someone would stop and ask, "Is your Citroen for sale? I have always wanted one"  Me, "No."   Him, "Would you take $2000 for it."  Hmmm, cost me $200; I've driven it 150,000 mile. "Yes I will sell it."  I have been paid to drive the safest, most comfortable, and economical automobile sold in this country, for years, mostly with no car payments! To late I realized they are infinitely repairable if they are not rusted out.  So for my second childhood I'm sailing, and looking for my next Citroen.

I just missed one on E-bay; a '65 ID 19 in CA that I was going to attempt to drive to VA.  [That proves how crazy I am at 70 . . .]  Would you believe I just found an SM Citroen parked 15 years in storage 20 miles from my house?  I have a check list of 100 reasons not to buy an SM Citroen and only three to make a bid: hmmm next weeks project. . .  

Anyone know of a Citroen for sale?

I would be happy to e-mail anyone a copy of my published documents on Citroen.  The 1955-75 cars were basically designed under German occupation. The company has been very secretive of the engineering and the designers; car reporters rarely understood what they wrote about in the automotive articles because they were so advanced . . . reporters had very little understanding.  

How about self correcting steering?  Hand off the steering wheel at one hundred miles and hour, blow a front tire.  Hands still off the steering apply the brake valve.  Straight line stopping. Notice it does not have a brake pedal? It does have full power brakes independent of a running engine. The '55 -'75 DS Citroen does have anti-lock brakes, and inboard disk brakes.  Four brake circuits; front, rear, emergency-front and parking. I list nearly 200 features many new to the automotive industry, some now mandated like Over Correction Control in 2012. Stop. Stop. Stop

Sorry, off my soapbox and back to the cockpit.

Citroen/Dave

[skip1930]

There was a dealership for Citroens in Highland Park, Illinois. Don't know if it's still there.
Also a dealership for X-road race cars. Depending what driver raced them the prices vary. Those prices are discussed in 'Points' as in 2.4, meaning $2,400,000!

Right next door to those $90,000 4 door Tesla's. People are nuts.

And to put those two batteries under the vee birth, I like the idea of moving that weight forward ...  there was a whole bunch of strength and wood cut out and replaced with hatches ... hummmm I wonder about that. That's where the lifting straps go according to where my stickers that say 'LIFT' are located. Do we squeeze the hull when lifting? Don't know.

skip.

[MacGyver]

 "Do we squeeze the hull when lifting"

No, unless it is a McGregor or similar quality....

Mac