looking to buy first sailboat - CP 19?

[Phebus]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum. I just moved to south FL from KY and I am looking to buy my first sailboat. I have done some single hand sailing on a 16' Hobie catamaran on a lake in KY.  I live a mile from two different boat ramps that are on the intercostal so i would like to get a trailerable sailboat that is quick to setup since i live close and can use it year round. I have a 6 cylinder Nissan pickup I will be towing it with. I would like to take it to sea and explore as much of the coast and maybe the bahamas, mexico...if possible?  i found this cp 19 for sale

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4319192209.html

What do you all think?  I have a budget of $6 - $8K  but I would like to leave some of that for all the other misc (Bimini top, radio, GPS, depth finder, life vests) I don't have anything, nor do I know what I need to sail the open ocean. My initial concern is set up time. From poking around on the forum it sounds like the 19 may take a little longer to set up by myself. I can almost see the ramp from my house so it would be nice if I could just go out for a few hours if i have an afternoon off, without a huge hassle. Would the above boat be a good fit, or would you recommend a different boat. Thanks

[skip1930]

Me thinks the way you wish to use the CP-19 was not a good fit.

Put the mast up and down for a afternoon sail? ... too much work.


Top`O mast to waterline is 25 foot without another 30 inches for a radio antenna.
Add another three foot to sit on a trailer. [9 inch keel off the road and then the hull plus mast.]
A six cylinder truck will tow 2300 lb no problem. Years ago there was Pinto pulling a CP-19.

Getting the O.K. to sit ramp side on a trailer and rigged ... I don't really think that's gonna happen.
Maybe the fully rigged boat can sit near the ramp. Look up for trees, powerlines, and any other interference.
Keeping the boat in salt water at a crowded dock is going to be expensive unless your dwelling is on a canal.
Find a marina and put the mast up on a CP-19 twice a year when she's pulled for hull scraping and reapplication of ablative paint.

Maybe a CP-16? Pick up a copy of Bob Burgess's book --> Hand Book of Trailer Sailing<--  it covers sailing around Florida waters in both a CP-19 and CP-16.

Really think this one out.

The red hulled boat and trailer looks beautiful and it's an old MK I model judging from the winch. Sails and rig may need replacement.
If your still serious, pull the hull number embossed and look~see the data on this CPYOA site.

I'm thinking a Com-Pac Picnic Cat, or Sun Cat for you but they are hard to find used so many $$$$'s ?

skip.

[Craig]

Welcome! Any Compac with the mastender system is ideal for your intended use. We had a Suncat which was great and now have a Horizon Cat which is a little more roomy but equally easy to rig. Since this is your first sailboat, I would recommend you take a look at a Suncat. Very stable and forgiving and very easy to handle while still providing ample space for daysailing or even some overnighting. Of course the ubiquitous C-16 probably provides the best bang for the buck while at the same time not being too challenging to rig-unrig. Picnic Cats can be found although they are less common. There are a couple of Suncats and(I think)a Picnic Cat for sale here in Punta Gorda-Port Charlotte. The easier your boat is to rig and trailer the more you will use it. I always found that unrigging at the end of a day of sailing to be more onerous than rigging and launching at the beginning of the day but the mastender system sure made it a lot less so. Good luck in your search!

[MacGyver]

Phebus,

I dont know what your physical health is, but I am 32, and feel with the right setup, one could easily trailer sail the boat. That is why my wife and I pulled ours off the market, is due to some chaanges for now the 19 will suit us better with our jobs. The mast is not a big chore for me, but I dont have roller furling (yet) and just use hank on sails (which will be for sale once we get roller furling )

I would think that when we get a CDI FF2 that we will be better suited to trailer sail than those with aluminum foiled furlers. Aluminum foiled furlers and age on ones body, or poor health contribute to a bad experience when stepping the mast. once you have stepped the mast a few times you will be able to develop a process. For me, to step the mast and run the lines, and add the mainsail is about 25 minutes. I have everything setup a certain way, and plan to make a few mods to better suit and facilitate the process.

The 19 to me is still a good contender for trailer sailing, although the 16 might be better. of course the 16 is smaller..... If you plan to do that coastal sailing stuff, I would think the 19 is more suited for that though........ Little higher in the water, could carry more gear, could overnight on a little more comfy...... etc.

Hopefully some Florida sailors will comment here as well that have and trailer the 19.

Mac

[Phebus]

Thanks for all your input. I looked at the sun cat but those appear to be out of my budget right now. So for me it looks like a 16 or 19? I'm 38 in excellent health so I don't mind lifting heavy things.  Having never been on either of these I'm just debating how much easier it would be to set up the 16 vs the extra room and stability of the 19.  I have a pretty flexible schedule , but I'm not sure how many of my trips would be day trips vs overnight.  I'm kind of leaning towards getting the red 19 just to get out there, and see for myself how hard it is to set up?  Mac. I will have to look up what some of the terms are that you are using. Right now I'm illiterate in sailing terms. I taught myself to sail just by looking at one diagram that showed how your sails need to be positioned depending on wind and the direction you want to go. I'm excited to get out there though.
Thanks
Phebus

[crazycarl]

Phebus,

I'm 54 y.o. and 5'8".  Not a big guy by any means, but i have no problem lifting the mast and rigging our 19 alone.

Once you do a few times, a system will develope and you'll shave time off with each rigging.

I take ours out for a day sail quite often, and the closet lake large enough is 2 hours away.

Sounds like your much closer to the water than we are.

The 16 is a great boat, but most sailors get 2 foot-itist within year or two.

I second what has been said, really think this through.  What are your primary sails going to be?  3-4 hour or overnight trips?

Good luck and welcome to the family,  cc

[kickingbug1]

 i do have a case of two footitess as i am considering moving up from my cp 16. after 6 years she hasnt given me a reason to gripe. ease of rigging is almost silly and she fits in the garage quite nicely. the perfect boat for a quick day sail. even though she has a long cockpit it is rather narrow (6 ft beam) so i would say three is the limit. as far as overnighting, i have done it twice and im 6'5". two people better like each other a lot. i am considering moving up in order to take friends and family along and i know a bigger boat requires more effort to rig and launch (but im retired and not on a timetable so a few more minutes doesnt bother me). the two boats sail completely different. the 16 is a wine glass hull and heels readily but you have to work to put her rail in the water so she is pretty stable. the 19 is the postergirl for stability. she has a more flat bottom and a 7 foot beam. that along with 800lbs of keel keeps her on her feet in all but the strongest winds. the 19 is more of a problem to trailer (she weight 2200 lbs) and a little tougher to launch. but she has ample room for a couple to spend a few nights on the hook. like carl said, it depends on your projected use. i hope i dont end up like some who have regretted selling their 16 and im thinking of keeping her for a while as i transition to a larger boat. good luck

[MacGyver]

Phebus, If you would like me to talk specifics to you about the process, I would be happy to do so on a phone conversation. that way as the process is explained you can ask to clarify things.

I had that when I was deciding so I try to do my best to help others similarly.

Email me your phone number and we can talk sometime if you would like.
Include "Phebus" in the email so I know who it is along with your name and number. Best times to reach you is good as well.

This is not to take away from those remarks on here from everyone else though, because I am sure, although never having done it myself, that the 16 is super simple.

The input from everyone else is just as valuable as my opinions on here or on the phone. I just figure might be better to hear it than me typing it all out, etc...... A novel could be written for each boats setup I am sure after all the opinions are aired.

dtjasondavis@gmail.com

If you want.
Mac

[Phebus]

Thanks all!  After weighing the pros and cons I think I would like the additional room of a 19.  I would like the ability to take friends and family out, and have ability to go out for a few days at a time.  I'm heading out tomorrow to look at the 19 I linked to on my first post. I plan on getting it unless there are some serious red flags. I appreciate all the help. I'm going to pick Mac's brain today. My first priority will be to figure out the fastest and easiest way to set it up and sail it.  After that I will make a list if modifications that I think might help make it more enjoyable. I have been reading a lot on this forum to see what you all have done. I'm sure I will have more questions once I get a boat and take it out. I believe the boat is sailable but I think I need a radio to get through the two draw bridges? Any radio suggestions?

Thanks,
Phebus

[BruceW]

Very cool. I trailersailed a 19 for 7 years. Very easy to rig up.

All I did was lay the mast down, left it in the step, bungeed it to the stern rail, and went on. To raise, straddle the mast facing the stern, lift up and step back. Vee-ola!

It will help if you have a clamp on the forestay, but I never had one of those, and it was pretty easy for me.

[Billy]

Phoebus,
I live in Palm Harbor, not too far from that boat. I also have a 19 and would be happy to help you set it up and show you some of the tricks I use to speed up the process. I'm also an ASA certified sailing instructor so I could help you our there as we'll.

I too do day sails from the trailer and while it is not too much trouble, overnights are better.

Tiger, how far did you trailer with your mast hanging 10' off the back? That sounds like a bad idea to me. Too much uplift on the step and could possibly pull out the tabernacle.

Here is a diagram I did a while back for someone with a 16, so no stern rail like on the 19. But the same principal applies.


And here is how I trailer my 19. Going on 7 years and no problems so far. Except all the flat tires on my trip to The FL Keys.


Don't forget the FL get together is coming up second week in May!

[Salty19]

That boat looks really nice.  If the boat is solid, that's probably a great deal.

It's small world here in Com-pac land:

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=6155.0

One thing you might want to research real quick is the differences between the original model and later models.  
There are small differences that you might appreciate more and could justify holding out for another boat, as some of these will cost quite a bit to change, if you're so inclined.

However the boat you've linked to has the nice IDA rudder kick-up assembly ($600 part), has new paint, looks well loved, and some upgrades are done.
I'm thinking with your budget, if it's on good shape, you could get it--add a bowsprit and the right jib to fit the new rig dimensions, and the rest of the differences won't be a big deal (stainless hardware vs. the aluminum on older models).

The only real thing that concerns me is the trailer.  Bass boat converted to sailboat trailer.   You want to make sure you have a 3,500lb axle rating, and for that matter the whole trailer. Looks like it's aluminum.  I don't know if this is a problem or not, but something to at least make an informed decision on.

Experience tells us that nice CP19's do not remain for sale very long...if you want it, think it's solid and don't have major objections...don't wait too long to decide on it.

[BruceW]

Hi, Billy,

I used to travel 2 or 3 times a month about a 45 minute drive, once every two months a 2 1/2 hour drive. I did put a red flag on the end of the mast. I probably would have taken the mast out of the step for longer trips, but I never ever saw any damage to mast or step in the years I did this. I did it out of laziness; worked out for me. Even if you do take the mast out and carry it up to the bow pulpit ( I have made wooden fittings up front to hold the mast steady), this is still easy, and the way to raise the mast is still the same, after you put it into the step. Good drawings, by the way.

Great boat, and I agree with Salty on the axle, etc.

[skip1930]

Never transport the mast while still bolted into the tabernacle.
Can you imagine the leverage over bumps when the masthead's a whippin? Even if it tied down.
We typically only have four 1/4 inch wood screws holding it in place, usually with an 'iffy' plywood hardpoint.

skip.

[Phebus]

I ended up getting the cp 19.  It was a little rougher than it looked in the photos, so I hope there aren't too many issues.  Thanks for all the help.  I will be combing through the old threads for info on items I think I need or want.   Here are my list of issues so far.
      I'm not sure if any repair is needed for cracks in the fiberglass.
      I need to get the lights working.
      there are no anchors for the boat
      There is no swim ladder
      There is no bimini
      The cushions smell like death