Hi from a new member

[Michael]

Bought a 1982 CP19 last summer, found a wealth of information by lurking here. Had some nice sailing last fall on Klamath Lake in southern Oregon - it is big but shallow, the CP19 is the perfect boat for this lake.
She has tanbark sails, a 6hp Nissan, Ida Sailor foil rudder and is in good condition and sweet sailing. The p o stripped her of electrical wiring and battery, so this is one of my winter projects. I would also like to find or build the galley accessory that some boats have. What is the general thought on these - are they useful or not that great?
Another question - these boats have single lower shrouds. Is there general agreement that this setup is adequate? I usually see double lower shrouds fore and aft.
Thanks for all the good info and lively exchange. Looking forward to more of the same. Also looking forward to spring sailing. I envy you guys in southern latitudes (although this year's weather has been pretty strange). As soon as I figure out how, I will add a photo of the boat.

Michael in Wonder, Oregon

[Bob23]

Hi Michael and welcome!
I'm not familiar with the 19 rig and any changes thereof but my 23 has an 8 stay rig with fore and aft lower shrouds. I suppose you could add that to a 19 but it would require at least an additional chainplate on both sides. My general feeling is to leave it be but I'll let other 19 guys chime in here.
Again, welcome...looking forward to you participation and photos. I normally charge a $5000.00 initial pre membership review fee but you seem like a nice guy so I'm gonna waive that fee. Don't let this get around, though or everyone will want a refund!
Bob23

[MacGyver]

Welcome Michael,

I will start with the Galley, as that was a option I pondered myself. I haven't seen pictures as to the build of one for the 19 and myself would have preferred to build on exactly like the original as I believe it was probably functional..... I wonder if someone has one here that could take multiple pictures of it for us........ maybe even measurements?

Rig, Well, according to Keith at the Sailboat Company who knows a ton about Compacs, says that the rig is overbuilt, so you should have a forestay, backstay, and upper and lower shrouds. this boat can be converted to backstayless although I myself have not done it. Do I think it will work? Yes, and that has been done.

If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask. A lot of us tinker constantly, and what others dont answer I can possibly fill in the blanks. My 19 was redone top to bottom last year over several months, and I know the boat inside and out. I also work on boats for a living at a marina in southern Illinois.

Back to the galley option, I know Crazy Carl is doing some modding, but hopefully someone here has that galley option already, and can help us out, that might be a fun project and maybe someone can provide details of its usages.

Also Greene's did a side bunk unit that was really cool..... maybe someone can link to it as well.

MacGyver

[wes]

Michael - of all the hundreds of threads here and elsewhere, I've never seen a single comment implying the 19's standing rigging is inadequate or that additional shrouds would be helpful. These boats don't carry a lot of sail for their size and weight. I think you can rest easy.

In fact, as MacGyver says, there's a school of thought that the factory four point rigging could be reduced to three, for easier mast raising when trailering. I don't subscribe to that theory myself - I'm more of an if-its-not-broke-don't-fix-it kind of guy.

Wes

[skip1930]

On CP-19 ... me thinks that a galley between the indent aft of the vee birth is too restrictive. Kiss access to the vee birth good by. A drawing of the factory optional gallery is in the owners manual. Better to have a single butane burner and a good hot meal at anchor under a boom tent in the cockpit. Take the drop board cut in half on a 45 for a table across the settees in the cockpit.

On a CP-19? Two ss cables of standing rigging per side of hull [shrouds]. Both are behind the centerline of the mast.
Never ahead of the centerline.
The boat is fitted two stacked chain plates per side.
Use one pin through the turn buckle for EACH cable and chain plate since they both have a slightly different angle.
The inside ones stop at the spreader and the outside ones heads for the masthead via a spreader.
The outer standing rigging is fitted with a spreader.
Spreaders should be vertical. Can pull or push them around with a boat hook.
Lay in the vee birth and sight up the mast to view the mast's straightness. A straight up and down mast without curves going up is fine. Don't need to rake the mast forward either.
When sailing the windward side rigging is taught. The lay side is a little loose.

Additional standing rigging is at the bow and an off set stern cable if fitted. Again mast is straight up and down.

Note that the four side and one stern standing rigging work together to keep the mast from being pulled -no more forward- then perpendicular to the waterline. There is a lot of 'pull' foreword on the mast in a heavy 60 knot blow with main and 155% lapper up.

The tabernacle at the deck that the mast rotates up in is stressed very little when the mast is standing up.

skip.

[kahpho]

Michael in Wonder, Oregon

Welcome to the fleet Michael. I was a bit surprised to see another Compac owner in my own area. They are as scarce as hens teeth around here. I did have to look up where Wonder is though, sounded familiar but just couldn't place it. Duh, it's right there on the Redwood Highway. Been through many times.

I'm in the Medford area and usually sail on Howard Prairie Reservoir. Haven't sailed Klamath yet. I would like to get to Diamond Lake this year. Or Whiskytown. Or the Columbia River. _{Or Shasta. Or Puget. Or...}

Sorry I can't help with your questions, not being familiar with the CP-19. Someone here will though, or several someones. Hope to see you at one of the local ponds... if there is any water this year. 

mel

[Michael]

Thanks for the welcome Mel, it is good to know another CP sailor is in the area. Maybe we can get together sometime to sail and swap stories. I have sailed on Howard Prairie Res. with my wife in an Aquarius 23 - many wonderful memories of sailing and overnight anchoring. I checked out HPR last fall after I bought my CP19. Water was pretty low and there were places on the lake where it was risky to sail. The guy at the marina said the only safe place was near the marina. Also checked out Fish Lake and Lake of the Woods, which I thought had possibilities. But Klamath Lake, even at low water in Sept and Oct, is still ok for a shoal draft boat like the ComPac. And it is a big lake with much wildlife and interesting places to explore. However when the wind picks up on Klamath it can create some big steep waves quickly because most of the lake is quite shallow. Winchester Bay might be a good sailing place - it is a pretty big bay and you don't have to go out on the ocean, although on a good day that would be beautiful.

I will check out Diamond Lake - have not spent any time there. I bought my boat from a couple who lived in Portland and sailed on the Columbia, including a trip down to Astoria and back. My wife (the Admiral) wants to do that, and I think it might be a gas with the right charts and GPS, VHF radio, etc.

Keeping my fingers crossed about rain and snow to fill HPR and our other reservoirs. HPR is a great sailing lake.

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

Welcome to the fleet Michael. I was a bit surprised to see another Compac owner in my own area. They are as scarce as hens teeth around here. I did have to look up where Wonder is though, sounded familiar but just couldn't place it. Duh, it's right there on the Redwood Highway. Been through many times.

I'm in the Medford area and usually sail on Howard Prairie Reservoir. Haven't sailed Klamath yet. I would like to get to Diamond Lake this year. Or Whiskytown. Or the Columbia River. _{Or Shasta. Or Puget. Or...}

Sorry I can't help with your questions, not being familiar with the CP-19. Someone here will though, or several someones. Hope to see you at one of the local ponds... if there is any water this year. 

mel

[Michael]

Thanks for the welcome Bob23, your waiver on your $5000 fee will be put to good use toward the sailing kitty. I will keep it under my hat, but rumors do tend to get started... Can't comment on what others will tell you, good luck with that.
Do you trailer your 23 or keep her in a permanent slip?

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

Hi Michael and welcome!
I'm not familiar with the 19 rig and any changes thereof but my 23 has an 8 stay rig with fore and aft lower shrouds. I suppose you could add that to a 19 but it would require at least an additional chainplate on both sides. My general feeling is to leave it be but I'll let other 19 guys chime in here.
Again, welcome...looking forward to you participation and photos. I normally charge a $5000.00 initial pre membership review fee but you seem like a nice guy so I'm gonna waive that fee. Don't let this get around, though or everyone will want a refund!
Bob23

[Michael]

Thanks for the reply, Skip. That's one for the "not very useful" side. I will check out the Owner's Manual when I find it. I think I would be under bare poles in 60 knots of wind, but I would prefer to be in a protected cove securely anchored with two big anchors. The cockpit table sounds like a good idea. I do have an aft stay, and I have noticed that the lee shrouds were a bit floppy on the wind.

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

On CP-19 ... me thinks that a galley between the indent aft of the vee birth is too restrictive. Kiss access to the vee birth good by. A drawing of the factory optional gallery is in the owners manual. Better to have a single butane burner and a good hot meal at anchor under a boom tent in the cockpit. Take the drop board cut in half on a 45 for a table across the settees in the cockpit.

On a CP-19? Two ss cables of standing rigging per side of hull [shrouds]. Both are behind the centerline of the mast.
Never ahead of the centerline.
The boat is fitted two stacked chain plates per side.
Use one pin through the turn buckle for EACH cable and chain plate since they both have a slightly different angle.
The inside ones stop at the spreader and the outside ones heads for the masthead via a spreader.
The outer standing rigging is fitted with a spreader.
Spreaders should be vertical. Can pull or push them around with a boat hook.
Lay in the vee birth and sight up the mast to view the mast's straightness. A straight up and down mast without curves going up is fine. Don't need to rake the mast forward either.
When sailing the windward side rigging is taught. The lay side is a little loose.

Additional standing rigging is at the bow and an off set stern cable if fitted. Again mast is straight up and down.

Note that the four side and one stern standing rigging work together to keep the mast from being pulled -no more forward- then perpendicular to the waterline. There is a lot of 'pull' foreword on the mast in a heavy 60 knot blow with main and 155% lapper up.

The tabernacle at the deck that the mast rotates up in is stressed very little when the mast is standing up.

skip.

[Michael]

Thank you for the welcome, MacGyver. I notice from the photo of your 19 that yours has the bowsprit. How does the sprit contribute to sailability, and are there maintenance issues? Does moving the center of effort forward with the addition of the bowsprit reduce weather helm?  There's probably been some past discussion of this. I think I will dig around in previous posts. I would like to see Greene's side bunk, if anyone can provide a link.

Speaking of weather helm, since my sailing in my 19 didn't include any strong winds yet, I have not experienced any significant weather helm and don't know how much to expect. Maybe that's another topic to research for in past posts.

My 19 has the backstay, and I can't think of any reason to remove it. Gives me a nice secure feeling that the mast is securely braced. I know some may have differing opinions, but that's good - makes for some good discussion and races. I am happy that the rig is strongly designed and built. As the old saying goes, "Nothing too strong ever broke."

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

Welcome Michael,

I will start with the Galley, as that was a option I pondered myself. I haven't seen pictures as to the build of one for the 19 and myself would have preferred to build on exactly like the original as I believe it was probably functional..... I wonder if someone has one here that could take multiple pictures of it for us........ maybe even measurements?

Rig, Well, according to Keith at the Sailboat Company who knows a ton about Compacs, says that the rig is overbuilt, so you should have a forestay, backstay, and upper and lower shrouds. this boat can be converted to backstayless although I myself have not done it. Do I think it will work? Yes, and that has been done.

If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask. A lot of us tinker constantly, and what others dont answer I can possibly fill in the blanks. My 19 was redone top to bottom last year over several months, and I know the boat inside and out. I also work on boats for a living at a marina in southern Illinois.

Back to the galley option, I know Crazy Carl is doing some modding, but hopefully someone here has that galley option already, and can help us out, that might be a fun project and maybe someone can provide details of its usages.

Also Greene's did a side bunk unit that was really cool..... maybe someone can link to it as well.

MacGyver

[Michael]

Thanks Wes, it is really good to know that everyone regards the rig as being strong the way it was designed and built. I should have bought one of these little craft years ago. Live and learn. I can think of no reason to get rid of the backstay. True, raising the mast and securing all the standing rigging for transportation would be easier, but I feel much more secure with the backstay supporting the mast. In fact, I am considering splitting the backstay to make the pull aft perfectly on the centerline rather than slightly to starboard as it now is. Any thoughts on this? I'm with you on the iinbdfi principle, but sometimes improvements are possible.

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

Michael - of all the hundreds of threads here and elsewhere, I've never seen a single comment implying the 19's standing rigging is inadequate or that additional shrouds would be helpful. These boats don't carry a lot of sail for their size and weight. I think you can rest easy.

In fact, as MacGyver says, there's a school of thought that the factory four point rigging could be reduced to three, for easier mast raising when trailering. I don't subscribe to that theory myself - I'm more of an if-its-not-broke-don't-fix-it kind of guy.

Wes

[wes]

I don't think the theoretical improvement in moving the backstay precisely to the centerline would be enough to outweigh the difficulty of adding another chainplate (it would need careful reinforcement due to the forces exerted on the backstay; I believe the original chainplate is reinforced with plywood glassed into the hull), cutting a slot for it into the deck-to-hull flange, etc.

I believe there are countless other mods, all detailed on this site, that would provide better bang for the time and expense invested. You already have the Ida rudder which is a huge improvement, and I assume your sails are in good condition - if not, I'd invest about $900 in replacing them. Foiled rudder and good sails make a dramatic improvement in the sailing quality of the 19; most other improvements are for appearance, convenience or comfort.

Good idea to replace the electrical system. I could not sail in our shallow NC waters without my depth finder, and wouldn't want to get caught out at dusk without nav lights.

Wes

[Michael]

Good information, Wes, and good advice I'm sure. I will wait until I have more sail time with her for any major mods. The funny thing about the removal of the electrical system is that the p o was an electrician. He said he just somehow never got around to rewiring, that the boat sailed just as well without the electrics. Definitely need depth sounder and nav lights.

Finally got a couple inches of rain here near the left coast. Want more to fill the Cascade lakes so I can sail them.

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

I don't think the theoretical improvement in moving the backstay precisely to the centerline would be enough to outweigh the difficulty of adding another chainplate (it would need careful reinforcement due to the forces exerted on the backstay; I believe the original chainplate is reinforced with plywood glassed into the hull), cutting a slot for it into the deck-to-hull flange, etc.

I believe there are countless other mods, all detailed on this site, that would provide better bang for the time and expense invested. You already have the Ida rudder which is a huge improvement, and I assume your sails are in good condition - if not, I'd invest about $900 in replacing them. Foiled rudder and good sails make a dramatic improvement in the sailing quality of the 19; most other improvements are for appearance, convenience or comfort.

Good idea to replace the electrical system. I could not sail in our shallow NC waters without my depth finder, and wouldn't want to get caught out at dusk without nav lights.

Wes

[Greene]

Welcome aboard Michael.  Here as link to the thread about simple galley ideas.  http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4019.0

Note: Vipersdad has owned that 19 now for a couple of years. 

Mike

[Michael]

Mike,  thank you for the welcome and the link to your galley.

Nice job on your galley insert - nice joinery and pretty wood and it looks like it really belongs in that space. After you used it for awhile, what are your thoughts? Was it as useful and useable as it looks in the photos? Did you make any modifications to the original design?

ComPac owners seem to be full of adventure and eager to experiment based on what I have seen on this forum so far.

Fair winds,

Michael in Wonder

Welcome aboard Michael.  Here as link to the thread about simple galley ideas.  http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4019.0

Note: Vipersdad has owned that 19 now for a couple of years. 

Mike