Eclipse questions

[alsantini]

Hello everyone.  My name is Al Santini and I am the current owner of a Precision 21.  I am 67 years old with a reasonable fitness level but am finding that the P-21 mast is becoming more than a bit tough to step and unstep.  I am contemplating a change and am considering an Eclipse with its mastender system.  I am looking for any and all information that might help make the decision.  Some specific questions are. Is the boat easy to singlehand? How much time from pulling up to the ramp does it take to get sailing?  How does the Eclipse actually sail?  Is it tender?  Someone suggested to me that the hull shape pounds when the wind picks up, is this true?  I really appreciate your overall impressions and since this board is all about ComPac, I figured it might be a good place to get real information.  My plan is to trailer the boat down to Florida during the winter, trailer sailing a couple of times a week and then sail from a marina during the summer.  I live in Northern Illinois and currently sail on Pistakee Lake.  Trying to find a boat that is both a good trailer sailor and a good sailing craft is not as easy as I thought.  Thanks in advance, I appreciate all comments.

[BruceW]

Hi, Al,

I remember you from my P-21 days. I put the mastender on my Slipper 17 after that experience, and really enjoyed it, except for not having as much room to stand as I had back in the Suncat days. You might like the Suncat or Horizon Cat better due to that.

I had a CP 19 and it was a good boat; I haven't seen how the rig works on the Eclipse, but I understand you undo the hinge when the mast is down, and roll it forward. You might like to go over and see a demo from someone to get how it works the best.

My feeling is you will like the Eclipse!

Bruce

[Vectordirector]

Hi Al,

My name is Bryan and believe it or not I live in Crystal Lake and own an Eclipse!  It is currently in storage at the Lake Geneva Yacht Club.  I've had it a little over a year and really like it.  I have a 30 year history of sailing, mostly sunfish and Hobie Cats.  I have had the Eclipse out on Lake Geneva maybe a dozen times and am still getting used to having a keel and a motor.  The boat is easily over powered in anything over 15 knots of wind and tends to round up.  Reducing sail fixes this easily.  Lake Geneva can get pretty choppy and the boat handles the chop beautifully.  I never feel unsafe in it. As far as raising the mast, it takes minimal strength and about 10 minutes.  I keep the boat on the hard with the mast up and rigged.  In the water in 5 minutes ready to go.  When I rigged the boat after towing it,  it took me about 30 minutes by myself.  You could cut that in half is you had help that knew what they were doing.  Singlehanding is easy.  Hardest part is getting the main up and down.  Sometimes the gooseneck gets stuck.

Anyway, after it warms up and the boat is out of storage in May, I would be more than happy to meet you at the club, show you the boat, and go for a sail.  Hopefully this spring will be better than last year.  We actually didn't get out on the lake until June.

I'm looking to retire the end of the year and am thinking Port Charlotte FL. area.  I think the Eclipse is the perfect boat for this area.  It isn't the fastest boat, but is easy to trailer sail and single hand. I looked long and hard at 20ish footers and it stood out as the best boat for me.   Friend of mine had a P-21 back in the mid 80's in Kansas City.  Great family boat,  he loved it.  I used to sail circles around it in my Hobie!  I was young, in good shape, and single.  No more.  Don't want to work that hard any more.  As I told my wife, I did fast, now I just want to sail and relax. 

Stay Warm,

Vectordirector 
 

[crazycarl]

Hi Al!

  Welcome to the forum.  I am also here in northern Illinois.  We have 19/II and really enjoy her.

It's good to see more Compacs up this way.  I've always wanted to sail the chain, but too many large power boats for me!

We trail up to Lake Geneva and Lake Delevan severals times a summer, beautiful Lake Geneva.

Carl

[Craig]

Hey Vec, come on down. The water is great! PC/Punta Gorda is a great place to live. Moved here 3 yrs ago and we love it!

[Vectordirector]

Hi Craig, I'm thinking of coming down in early April to look around.  I'll PM you for some area info. 
Al, I got your PM and will respond via email. 

Vectordirector

[tmorgan]

Check out the Sun Cat as well.  They are easy to trail and sail. Great boats for old guys...like us!

[EclipseGuy]

Hi Al,

Welcome to the forum! This is the best place to go for Com-Pac information and suggestions. I have learned a lot by lurking around this site, and have shared a couple of my opinions as well.

I have owned several trailer sailors myself. Some of them started out sounding like a good idea, but in reality they ended up not being a good fit, so I know what it is like to dream about specific models only to find out after purchase that it wasn't exactly what I thought.

My criteria has typically been a trailer sailor that is easy to rig, because I like to visit various places for just a day or two, and be large enough to be comfortable if I want to spend the night aboard, and being able to beach the trailer sailor is a big plus. Having a "fast" trailer sailor was not a high priority, but it does have to be fun to sail.

The trailer sailors I have owned are the West Wight Potter 19, Sanibel 18, Seaward 25 and the Com-pac Eclipse (currently own). I wouldn't say that any of these are fast, I would bet that your Precision 21 is faster, but I can tell you that of all the boats I have owned the Com-Pac Eclipse is the most fun and a solid performer. It is hands-down my favorite.

I do most of my sailing on the great lakes and inland lakes of the midwest. I have had all of these boats in some pretty rough stuff, and some very high winds. The Eclipse is a very confident sailor, and the rudder handles very smoothly unlike the Potter and Sanibel that vibrate and shimmy in the heavy stuff. I feel more in control with the Eclipse than I did any of the other trailer sailors.

I am impressed with the build quality of the Eclipse. It is on par, and in my opinion, in many ways even better than my Seaward was (Potter and Sanibel don't even compare).

The Eclipse isn't prone to pounding in waves. Obviously it is a small boat, so if you are in large waves most small boats will pound, but in a chop the Eclipse slices through it. It has a very narrow forward hull that slices through. I have some photos of me motoring in the Eclipse next to my sister in her West Wight Potter 19 while going through some decent chop and she is pounding so bad in her WWP that the nose is half buried and the splash is completely thrown over the cockpit. We were able to take pictures of her from our Eclipse that had no splash at all. The photos we took ended up being featured on the WWP website as a "reader of the month" photo, to show how much fun potters are, but the reality is that Eclipse that took those pictures was experiencing a nice smooth ride.

The Mast-Tndr is a HUGE benefit when rigging the Eclipse. Also, the inner shrouds are attached to the mast instead of a chain plate, and there is no backstay, so that means that there is very little chance for a tangle when raising the mast. The Boom and main sail are always rigged and ready to go, so that saves time. I can rig the Eclipse in about 15 minutes, and it doesn't require using a gin pole (even though I have one).  

If you are in a position where you have less mobility than you used to, and that lifting the mast is not desirable, then rigging a gin pole would probably take an additional 15-20 minutes. I have never had to do it, so that time is a guess. In any case, I believe that this is the fastest/easiest rigging sloop in this size range. The Horizon Cat is probably even easier, and if you move down to a Legacy or Sun Cat it would be easier still.

Haul out takes a bit longer than launch because you want to secure everything properly with bungies and tie-downs before hitting the highway.

Another thing to think about is mobility. I hate bringing up this subject, because it tends to lead to controversy, but the open transom and arch have some pretty neat advantages.

Boarding the boat from either a dock, or the beach, or the water, is significantly easier on the Eclipse when compared to many other trailer sailors this size. The arch is a solid hand hold. It also positions the main sheet up an out of the way, so you aren't choking yourself when you gybe. Moving the sheets out of the way in the cockpit of a small boat is a big advantage for mobility and comfort.

The arch and the open transom also allow me to sail or motor standing up comfortably. This is especially helpful when I am navigating the marina. The arch is a solid place to hold, and positioned just forward enough that I can stand behind it while working the tiller.

The arch also creates the perfect crutch for securing your mast. No need for extra steps dealing with a mast crutch when rigging, it is already there.

The open transom seems to be especially controversial within the Com-Pac community. I don't know if it is because of tradition, or fear. There are many other sailboats with open transoms (e.g. Beneteau First 20, Hunter 22), so it isn't really a new concept. From my experience, the open transom has been a blessing.

I have a 110 pound german shephard with bad hips. I can actually get her into the cockpit through the open transom. All sheets and lines are out of the way, so it is a clear entry. In addition, my mother can now go for sailing rides when we go camping. I no longer have to try to get her up over the side, I simply bring the stern around to her and she steps up.

Working the outboard is significantly easier. No more having to sit on a transom with sheet blocks digging into your rear and reaching down in some contortionist pose to control the outboard. The outboard is right there at your level. Reversing the boat is significantly easier because you can sit facing the stern and have easy access to the outboard.

You could potentially lose something that was on the floor if it slid out the back of the transom (this seems to be a big concern), but this has never happened to me. I don't really know how often the boat would be at such a steep angle (front to back) such that things would slide out the back anyway. My shoes have never slid out (they are usually on the floor). I think I am more likely to drop something over the side.

Some people fear water coming into the cockpit in an open transom. I have sailed in some pretty big waves and do not experience an issue with water coming in through the transom. The stern tends to lift as a big wave approaches.

I do have water splash into the cockpit floor from the swing-keel pendant though. In heavier waves it actually gurgles quite a bit. My shoes end up getting wet from it, and if there was dirt on my shoes I end up with a muddy floor. I installed some dri-dek on the cockpit floor so that my shoes, and feet, no longer get wet from the keel pendant.

There are pros and cons to every sailboat design. It is a matter of choosing the trade-offs that best fit your needs.

One of the cons of the Eclipse is the cabin headroom. It has less headroom than even the smaller Potter and Sanibel have. I can sit below without hitting my head (I am 5'9") but the seats are lower to the ground so your knees are at more of an angle than they are in many other boats.

The low cabin headroom can be seen as a plus though. The coach roof itself is lower and somewhat flat (not extremely curved), with good anti-skid, so going forward on the bow is quite easy. There isn't a huge step up from the cockpit seat like there is on the potter and sanibel.

The anti-skid is quite aggressive, and can be a challenge to keep looking clean, especially if you are spending time in a muddy area. The red mud of Lake Monroe in Indiana was no fun to clean up after! I am not sure if this is a pro or a con.

There is no weather deck or footing along the side of the deck of the Eclipse. This is seen as a con by some people, but I see it as a pro. It is a small boat and I find a tiny 6 inch wide weather deck, like many small boats have, less comfortable to move around on (like walking a balance beam), than it is to have the entire coach roof. The coach roof of the Eclipse is especially nice because it is low, and somewhat flat.

I know that I sound very "pro Eclipse", but it is my favorite boat. It is the perfect balance of trade-offs for me. The only thing I could wish for is that it could be even bigger yet just as easy to rig, launch and sail.

These are just my opinions, based on my experience of the Eclipse.

- John


- I edited this post to clarify the anti-skid on the coach-roof and to fix some of my bad grammar...

[EclipseGuy]

I should add to my above post that there is a very irritating con to the Eclipse regarding the Mast-Tndr system in that the genoa sheets often catch on the mast hinge when tacking. This often required me going forward to untangle the sheets after a tack.

I did solve this issue with an inexpensive and easy to do modification (add a simple line forward of the mast). I haven't experienced a mast-hinge fouled sheet since, and it has been about a year and a half since I did the mod, so I am quit confident that it was a successful solution to the problem.

I posted the mod in the Eclipse section if you are interested in details.

- John

[EclipseGuy]

Another thing to think about is the trailer, especially if you are considering long road trips.

The standard Eclipse trailer has 10 inch, high pressure, tires. While these sound great in theory, because they make launching even easier, there are some problems associated with them.

The 10 inch tires moan horribly once you get to around 50-55MPH.

Also, the 10 inch high pressure tires are not stocked at tire places should you need one while you are on a trip. Mine where less than 4 years old when I was towing the Eclipse up north and noticed that the tread was separating on one of my tires. Upon closer inspection, I saw some tread separation on my spare as well. I wanted to get some replacement tires but could not find a source that had them. They had to be special ordered, and places like Discount Tire wouldn't even deal with it. I ended up towing the entire trip on bad tires. Luckily I made it.

When I got home I took the trailer to the shop and asked them to change out the fenders to accommodate 14 inch tires. Once I installed 14 inch tires the difference when towing was night and day. The 14s are quiet, and the trailer tracks perfectly and is easy to tow at any speed. 14 inch trailer tires are stocked at just about  tire place, so that is big plus.

I have had no issues launching the Eclipse with 14 inch tires, even at very difficult shallow launches like the one on Wixom Lake in Michigan.

- John

[alsantini]

John.  You covered everything that was o my mind.  I cannot thank you enough.

[kickingbug1]

   my two cents-----ive sailed one-----if i could afford it, one would be in my garage right now

[tmorgan]

I switched to larger tires as well, a great idea!

[Eagleye]

Al,
I have sailed my Eclipse here in upstate New York for 2 seasons now and I have to agree with what the others have posted.  This is the first boat that I have ever owned so I have nothing to compare with.  I can only say that she has been very kind and patient with me and I learn something new each time I sail her. 

I am a trailer Sailor.  The Madame stays on her trailer most of the time and we travel to different locations throughout the season, stepping the mast each time.  I use the gin pole because it is so easy to control the stepping process.  Using the block and tackle from the boom vang actually lets you stop and lock the mast in any position if there is a snag that needs to be attended to.  Single-handed setup time (arrival to splash without interruptions) is between 30 to 40 minutes but I'm old and slow too. In the last 2 seasons we have launched about 35 times and trailered over 4,000 miles. I have had no problem with the stock 10" tires but I would be more comfortable with another axel and or larger tires.

This forum has been the best learning opportunity that I have found.  The folks here are well informed and are always happy to share experiences and information.  Read through the Eclipse section and you will find it valuable in helping you make your decision.

-Allen