Rudder Craft rudder vs. Compac foil rudder

[marc]

I've decided to replace the stock rudder on my Compac 19. Compac Yachts emailed me that an eclipse rudder will fit the 19. It comes with the control handle and the plastic tab that goes on the rudder head to lock the handle down. Cost is $400 vs $375 from Rudder Craft. The rudder from Rudder Craft has a rectangular shape and the one from Compac has more of a knife shape - quite a difference. Does anyone have any insights as to how these rudder perform? What would you get?
Thanks for your help.

Here's the rudder from compact:


And here is the one from Rudder Craft:

[Billy]

I too have wondered this. I have the Com-Pac blade on my 19 and it made a huge difference.


the fish seem to like it too!

I cannot speak about the performance of rudder craft. my only comment is that some have mentioned that the rudder craft needs a "pin" of some sort to keep the blade from floating up but will still break in the event of a grounding. This also seems to be a bit of a problem if you wish to raise and lower the rudder w/out leaving the cockpit. The CP has the arm which makes raising and lowering the blade from the cockpit easy. If you do run aground and the rudder craft pops up you will need spare pins should they shear into two parts. w/ the CP rudder you can just move the arm back into place. Now I have had a few times when the arm pops out while under way. but just a little adjustment (I step on the arm and push it into the water) the arm fits snugly back into place.

Of coarse you could just get the whole setup from rudder craft and then your rudder will tilt up a full 180 degrees.


looking forward to the other responses.

[Salty19]

I have some first hand, yet limited experience to share.

I have the full IDA assembly with a 46" blade (from the top portion of the bottom mount to the tip of rudder) as shown here:



The rudder is the same NACA0012 foil pattern as their "bolt on" rudder but are solid HPDE and the assembly uses a kickup/down air-shock type arm to keep the blade down, yet allows it to kick up if needed with self-push down upon clearing the obstacle.  A single line is used to either raise or lower it, and with a little technique in how this is done, which is a little tricky, works well.

The length was custom, I wanted more rudder bite for maximum holding power in strong winds and an early warning of grounding. I was probably wrong about the early warning.  The one time we grounded the keel and rudder pretty much hit at the same time.  There was no early warning, but I do appreciate the tenacity of holding power when the winds kick up and I'm in a frisky mood to let the boat SAIL, and not round up too early.  It's not like I'm going to flip the boat over on our little lake!

Anyway, I did sail Billy's boat in the spring with the Compac foiled rudder.  The wind was light, so I can't comment on comparisons between the two designs for stronger weather helm.  The weather helm felt about the same in the light winds we had. I felt that I had a bit less control at lower speeds and even missed a tack with the Com-pac blade. Granted the missed tack may of just been because I hadn't sailed in 5 months and was rusty, or perhaps because I was used to something different, or both. The wind was very light though..don't get me wrong, it turned beautifully when we had a little speed (say 1.5 knots or more).  But I do feel the IDA turned with a little more authority and responded better at lower speeds.   Again, not sure about performance at higher wind speeds. 

However our First Place CLR trophy at least should tell you something 

Keep in mind all of these comments are based on a custom length IDA blade on the full assembly, not the blade replacement.
Your mileage may vary and the usual disclaimers.

Here is the assembly in the up position on the trailer.

[Billy]

Yes, in super light air she does stall out. But only if the boat is crawling. It has nothing to do with rust just not enough momentum to carry her up and through the wind......however, when the boat is moving she tacks great, and I do get that early grounding warning Salty mentioned. Of coarse that may be do to the additional balast in the cockpit

I do think the HPDE is probably more durable than the fiberglass though.

The big question is do the fish like it?

[marc]

Is the Compac rudder also solid HDPE?

[Billy]

No, pretty sure it has the aluminum core with fiberglass foil.

It's pretty durable. Feels very solid.

[Salty19]

Billy is right, only at a crawl pace did the Com-pac rudder stall.  The stock rudder would of stalled long before this.

A discussion of how they behave in medium and strong wind conditions (when they really shine) might be a lot more helpful than the minute differences at a crawl pace. 

I have no complaints about the IDA in all wind conditions.  There still is safety of some weather helm, but hardly any effort is needed to hold the tiller.  One finger can steer it in light/medium winds.  I've only rounded up once in 4 years of sailing with it.  I deserved that. Was out in some pretty strong wind that day and was braving some fierce gusts.

Unfortunately I can't compare the IDA to stock as I never used the stock rudder.  Having used the IDA on my old 16, and what a night and day difference that was, that was the first modification that winter.

I have to think the Com-pac version is similar? I like that pull handle a lot, it's made by Com-pac so it's probably stronger than it needs to be and the fish DO seem to have an affinity towards the Com-pac blade.

Billy, what say ye?

[Eagleye]

Marc,
     I have nothing to compare the Eclipse rudder with so I can only comment on my experiences after 2 seasons of sailing the Eclipse. I really like the simplicity of the raising mechanism using the control handle.  No lines, pulleys, pins or cylinders.  The system is so easy that it makes removing the rudder a snap.  The nut for the pivot bolt has a tab welded to it so no tools are needed.  That is important to me as a trailer sailor since I remove the rudder for transport. 
     The control handle makes for an easy lift and it locks down solid, yet provides enough spring to release if something hits the rudder, I have had it release on me only once when we were in some heavy seaweed.  The rod on the control arm can lose its shape after a release but it can easily be reshaped.
    BTW, the prop will not come close to the rudder in the fully locked down or locked up positions.  If it is somewhere in between.... ugly things can happen.  
      One does have to be careful backing with the Eclipse rudder in the raised position as it does extend straight back and does not rise totally perpendicular.  I have always had concerns of snagging the dock and there would be no forgiveness. 
     Weather helm??      As Salty indicated the Eclipse requires only fingertip pressure to keep her on course.  I'm not sure if it is the design of the boat or the rudder...or both.
    This season many of my sails were single handed so without the admiral on board I was able to let the reins loose and let the Madame have her way.  She likes to heal and I have become more comfortable with that.  (Or maybe it is vice versa.)  Near the end of this season I purchased an inclinometer just for fun.  It only goes to 45 degrees so what I have learned is that somewhere between 45 degrees and dipping the rail the rudder does come out of the water enough to loose steering and she will round up.  Again, is it the rudder design or the boat?  You decide.
    The steering seems to be very responsive in anything but very light wind but as mentioned you just need enough forward motion to make a turn happen.
That is all I have Gents.

-Allen

   

[marc]

Salty,
Have you noticed any flexing of the Rudder Craft rudder? I'm wondering whether an all HDPE rudder has any shortcomings in that respect. I suppose that if your custom length rudder does not have that problem then their off-the-shelf rudder for a 19 wouldn't either.
Marc

[Tim Gardner]

Salty,

Socks and sandals?

TG

[brackish]

I have the ComPac version on my 23 and I think it is probably very similar to the Eclipse.  I can't talk about relative sailing performance, it is the only rudder system I've had on the boat.  I will mention some things not related to sailing performance.  The Compac will only lift 90 degrees and my boat stays in the water all the time.  I like to lift it up, however about 3" of the rudder stays in the water all the time, so I have a good slime/grass coat on the leading edge even when I lift it.  The rudder will not stay locked down when underway.   I've been told by Compac that I have to adjust the lift bar by bending it to correct that.  Easier said than done, that thing is a heavy bar and to put a precise bend in it is virtually impossible.  There is a locking tab on the bar and while I can put a shock cord on it to keep it from coming out aft, it will still slip off to the side with any minor pressure.  Once out it lifts just enough to create significant weather helm.  I think it is poorly designed mechanically.  I'm going to try to add some tabs to the tiller pivot yoke to keep it in place side to side, and see If I can have a custom handle made to lift it all the way out of the water, but I think the ruddercraft is already like that.  I don't think you should have to do all that to a nearly new rudder system.

[marc]

Hello Brackish,
I was wondering how well that lifting rod locking mechanism would work. Also, I am reluctant to have the rod handle sticking up from the rudder. Last season there were several times I was leaning over the rudder to either work on my motor, or to scrape the rudder blade with a paint scraper to remove growth. I wouldn't want to have the rod handle in my way.

Last season I also had trouble with the blade moving aft while underway. I tightened the pivot screw as much as I dared, yet the blade would still creep back. I solved that problem by drilling a hole through the rudder head just aft of the blade, and then inserting a clevis pin to keep the blade down. I don't have to worry about shallow water so that was a good solution for me. I figured I would just do the same thing with a new blade. I contacted Rudder Craft about using a clevis pin this way. They recommended using their delrin shear pin for this application. Here's the link:
   >http://www.ruddercraft.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60&products_id=298

All else being equal, at this point I'm inclined to go with the Rudder Craft option.
Marc

[Salty19]

The solid HPDE has shown no signs of flexing.  It's pretty stuff stuff.  Think plastic cutting board material.

I don't imagine this material will bend if subjected to high force, it would probably break off, but I don't know for sure either way.

Note, the full assembly uses the solid HPDE, the IDA bolt on rudder has an aluminum backbone.  The latter has been known to bend--for example when sailing in shallow water, stern lifted by a wave and crashing down to the bottom when entering the wave trough.  I think I've read two reports in 7 years about the backbone bending, but personally I'm not concerned about it.

Tim, my footwear at home tends to be crocs because they don't mark travertine or tile or wood floors like many shoes/sandals do.  And because I like to look to like a nerd, well, because I am one (engineer).