thinking of moving up

[kickingbug1]

    i am thinking of moving up to a cp 19 from my 16. i have sailed my 16 for about 6 years now and am a 100 percent trailer sailor. our lake is just 25 minutes away and as anyone knows a 16 is a breeze (pun intended) to set up, launch and retrieve and it easily fits in my garage. however, being 6'5" i would like a little more room and it would be nice to take my daughters family when they visit as well as a few friends. my concerns are obvious----trailering and set up. my v6 powered s-10 is the only tow vehicle i have. its effortless with the 16 but at 1000lbs more a 19 might be pushing the issue. granted i wouldnt be towing it very far. im 61 and not getting any younger so the setup on the 19 seems a little daunting. a friend uses his jib halyard and a block forward to help raise his so that might be an option. i did do some measuring and it appears that the 19 would fit in my garage which is a must (im not messing with a boat cover). i guess what im after is first hand advice from someone who has owned a 16, moved up to a 19 and still sails off the trailer. there are a number of other larger (18 to 20 footers) out there that are lighter than 2000lbs but they are not com-pacs. anyway thanks for any input.    that three foot itis is a bugger

[Jon898]

Have you considered the Suncat and its siblings (Sunday Cat and Sun Cat Daysailer)?

The setup off the trailer is as simple as it gets with the Mastendr, and a cat rig can be a lot of fun.  Fitting in a garage might be a challenge depending on your door height (it appeared to be an inch too tall on the trailer for mine when I checked it out a few years ago), but you get a big cockpit and super-easy rigging.  Since they're a lot newer than the 19, cost could also put it out of contention.

Just a thought...

[Bob23]

Hey Kick:
   check this out:
http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/search/boo?=boo&query=suncat&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=&maxAsk=
B23

[Billy]

Kick,
While I started with a 19 and then bought a 16 (and then sold the 16 shortly there after) I think I can give you some advice.
There is a big difference, the 16 is much easier to rig. The mast is much lighter and easier to raise. Although I still muscle the 19's mast up I could do it with one hand on the 16. I am 33 years old and while still easy, I could see it being a chore for some of the wiser fellows. Also the extra shroud on each side can also be a pain. Tends to get caught on the eyebrows (just double check before you raise) and the back stay has gotten wrapped around the tiller a time or two. I don't disconnect these each time like I do for the front stay, but they still get in the way. When the mast is down, the stern rail helps hold the mast up, but you also have to step over the spreaders when going forward.

I don't know if you can get into your 16 w/out a ladder when it is on the trailer (or water for that matter) but you will need one on the 19. Loading and unloading, and getting things in and out of the boat are more work too. can you or your wife lift a cooler overhead? And once you get home after a long day sail, and realize you left something in the boat, would you be willing to climb back in and under the mast and extra cables to get it? Here is a picture of my wife next to our boat on the trailer. She is 5'5"


And another with me on it to give you some scale. I'm 5'10"


AND the cockpit isn't that much smaller on the 16 (it may even be a tad bit longer if I recall), but the seats are wider in the 19. As a day sailor I really don't think they are all that similar. And would almost discourage you from going to the 19.

BUT.....
I would put the performance of the 19 way ahead of the 16. It points higher, faster, and much more room (inside the cabin & on deck. Much more stable and would allow you to sail on days you may otherwise not.
Where you really notice the extra room is in the cabin and all the storage. Also, the lockers in the cockpit are larger. You can have some people forward sitting on the deck (i like this b/c it helps the trim of the boat), some sitting on top of the cabin at the base of the mast and a few below in the cabin and still have the helmsman at the tiller w/ a few others. There is a TON of room on this boat!!!

In the picture below there are 6 people on the boat, a 90lbs Doberman lying down in the cockpit, and 3 days worth of camping gear for 6 people.


I have yet to have a problem launching the 19 (especially w/ the tongue extension) and retrieving has been ALMOST as easy. The only real problems I ever really have have been due to the boat getting sideways on the trailer due to some cross currents at the ramp. I guess I might be able to muscle a 16 into place while the 19 I had to back up and go at it again. All in all, launching and retrieving have been a non issue for me.

I trailer my 19 every time I sail it and while I often look at other boats, I am pretty satisfied knowing she is the perfect boat for me now, later on? who knows?. I feel like the 19 is as big as I would want to go and still be able to trailer. Sometimes I sail for a day, sometimes 3. I would hate to rig a 23 just to sail for one day, and hate to sleep on a 16 for 3!

my suggestion is that if you only just want to day sail, and trailer every time, I would look into either a Suncat or stay w/ your 16.
If you don't mind a little more work on the front and back end, than go for it! Who knows, once you see how much room there is down below, you may end up becoming a weekender!

On of my favorite things to do is to spend the night on the hook!

Final verdict? Get a 19 and do some weekends in new places!

[Ted]

Well, I had a 16, went sailing with Billy in his 19, and traded up to a 19. 

I would agree that overall the 16 is easier to trailer, rig and launch. The 16 is an awesome boat but it's limited. My wife and I spent four nights out on her in the Keys. It was great, but a bit claustrophobic at times.

The 19 is harder to rig for sure. It takes me longer and it's more physically demanding (I don't use a mast tender). Unlike Billy, I am getting to be an old man (50) and I use the jib halyard trick most of the time.  Since there is a backstay, you have to make 100% sure that it's loose enough to attach the forestay - a mistake I have made a couple times. I also have a roller furler on mine so that complicates the setup a bit as it has to be horsed into place. I find that care taken when storing the boat is the #1 way to speed up the setup. If I prep the boat for rigging when I tie down the mast, etc. after sailing, it goes much faster on setup the next time.

I have had the exact same issue that Billy notes with the boat wanting to go wonky when I retrieve it. There is no dock alongside my usual launch site so sometimes I just jump in and push it around onto the trailer. My trailer initially came with some "arms" that were in the back of the trailer and I took them off. I am going to put them back on because I think they will help resolve this problem.

The 19 is a much better all around boat if you take others sailing with you, which we like to do. 3 feet on a boat is a big deal and particularly on these boats. The chines are harder so the boat is far more stable. It's roomy. People with other boats get on the 19 and are amazed at the space. The way the 19 sails is different as well. It just feels like a bigger boat. Billy has a hydrofoiled rudder. I don't, and sometimes I stall on a tack if I am not minding my P's and Q's. I have everything to make a NACA but the time to git 'er done - I will do it soon.

Keep in mind the 19 requires a larger motor. I used an electric motor on the 16 when it was in the lake and that is a super easy setup. No mess, no fuss, no problems. I have a Mercury 6 HP on the 19 and I had to rebuild the carb shortly after I got it. It's just more hassle than the electric motor.

[Salty19]

Kick,

I would really consider the Suncat.  So many advantages over both a 16 and 19 in terms of rigging ease, and a nice upgrade from a 16 in almost every regards.  I say almost only because you may want a sloop rather than a cat.

You are literally the perfect "target audience" for the Suncat. Easy to deal with all around.

Truth be told, a Suncat might just be my next boat (addition to the 19 for a pure trailer and winter boat).

Call me when you drive out to NJ to see that Suncat Bob23 mentioned.    You can crash at my place, I might even polish the boat for you. 

[Billy]

I say almost only because you may want a sloop rather than a cat.

Capt. Nemo has a slopped rigged cat......

[kickingbug1]

    first off i really appreciate the input from people who "know". i knew i could count on that.  recently i have found a 19 II near here that belongs to a woman who sailed with her husband until his death. she now wants to downsize to sail solo. today jason and i will inspect the 19. im thinking of trading my 16 for the 19 and seeing how it goes---a bit of a gamble as my 16 is set up well and requires nothing. in the future i might re-rig the 19 to a three point rig without backstay as has been done by the sailboat company in north carolina. 19s have also been converted to a mast-tender system. mike knows my situation better than anyone and has told me to keep my 16 and i appreciate the advice. the 19 would afford us much more room and the ability to take others for a cruise and i guess worse case scenario i could sell it and get my money back (providing i can deal with the owner ). i have lots to think about for sure and hopefully my heart wont overrule my brain. again thanks so much to everyone------ill let you know how the saga ends.

[Billy]

I don't think converting to a 3 point rig is a good idea.

You would have to move the shrouds aft (more holes in the boat). But the bigger issue is that you cannot let your main sail out as far as it will rub on the spreaders, and the boom will chafe the shrouds. Anything downwind of a broad reach and you cannot set your sail right. I also think it puts way too much strain on the rig. As it is now (4 points) should one stay fail, the other three will keep your mast up. On a 3 point rig if one stay fails down comes the mast and that could be a disaster.

Plus the aft stay is about the only secure thing you can hold onto in the cockpit when standing up or climbing into the boat over the stern rail.

I really don't see the benefit of doing this. the back stay really isn't a problem except for 1 second before you hoist the mast. Just check to make sure it isn't tangled around the tiller.

I am sure it has been done, and is structurally sound. I just don't see the benefit. Spend your money else where. A mast tender sounds like a much better modification.

[kickingbug1]

    the sailboat company (a com-pac dealer) has apparently converted 5 boats to three point rig. they do affix new chainplates aft but they also remove the spreader because according to them it is just there for looks and really serves no purpose. i plan on contacting them to try and consult with their rigging guy. i have never stepped the mast on a 19 but have been told by others that it isnt that hard. the suncat idea is interesting but i do want a boat that points better than my 16 and i doubt if a catboat would, after measuring the 19 today i might find that it wont fit in the garage which would be a dealbreaker. thanks buddy for your incite

[Tim Gardner]

Unless you have an 8 ft high door , a 19II ain't gonna fit.
TG

[Salty19]

Capt. Nemo has a slooped rigged cat......

True. 

Kick, tough decision. Assuming it fits and is in decent shape,if you can even-trade the 16, worse case you sell the 19 get another 16..maybe a centerboard for the same price. You'll get taxes twice though...I assume IL taxes you when registering a new car/boat.

[kickingbug1]

   i has jason inspect it and we came to the same conclusion-----needs plenty of cleaning and tlc----but basically sound. i measured it for height and its pretty close. at present my garage door openings are 92". since i built the garage myself, it can be altered to be almost 96 if need be. just a little creative woodbutchering on my part. even though it will be  more work to rig and launch, i think the advantage of more room is worth it. money is the key at this point. it its right ill make the move, if not its a long winter and the 16 isnt eating anything. thanks for the advice buddy as always-----say hi to becky for us

[Tim Gardner]

SOLD!!!

[kickingbug1]

   a few questions about stepping the mast on a 19.   since some of my sailing is solo i would like to hear some ideas about raising the mast on a 19 by myself. a good friend Crazy Carl runs his jib halyard through a block attached to the bow and as he raises the mast pulls on the halyard to take some of the strain. he then cleats off the halyard on the lower mast cleat and then attaches the forestay. this seem like the best way. i figure that the mast isnt a lot heavier than the one on my 16, so i really should be able to muscle it up, im 6'5" so that should help. also im curious what others use to tow their 19s. i have an s-10 with a 4.3 v6 and automatic.