New Electric Panel Recommendations

[Rookie]

Hello to all Com-Pac 23 owners...

I have just bought my first sailboat (hee ha)...Nirvana is a lovely Com-Pac 23..but like all mature ladies...(no pun intended)..it needs some "fixing up" ..which I would love to do..as my name suggests..I am a ROOKIE..this is my first sailboat...my training wheels to a lifelong dream of casting off and heading out in the wide blue sea one day....but thats a bit off ..i still need to learn a lot ..

I am hoping (and praying..) that you seasoned folks on this forum..will graciously guide me through the trial and errors of getting the old lady up and running ...and down the road ..as I have an ambitous restoration plan (wife..budget and time permitting)...

The very first thing I want to tackle is the electrical stuff...the old DC Panel on the boat is dated and limited (I hope to install additioanl gizmos etc on the boat). I would like to replace it with one with at least 8 or more (preferrably 12) breakers...and a couple of meters ..(I hope to install two batteries ..in place of one today)..

Do you guys have any recommendations for electric panel..any model..any reasonable place to buy..even used in good quality..which brands to trust etc..

Your help ..and guidance is very much appreciated.
Sean....

[wes]

Hi Sean - no doubt all the CP 23 guys here will chime in with excellent (but probably contradictory) advice. My suggestion is that you go to the Amazon web site and order a copy of "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" by Don Casey, which I promise you will be $14.63 well spent. Even better, add Don's "This Old Boat" to the order. He has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about sailboat renovation, and he writes in an entertaining, easy to understand style. Highly recommended!

Wes

[Rookie]

Hi Wes...

Thanx for the note. I am actually looking for recommendations on "What (Which brand, what parts etc)...and where (website/marine stores/great places for bargains etc)..suggestions for the materials ..more than how to do it (I am sure I will be back with ok..I bought it ..now what... ..just kidding). I am pretty handy with a plier and screw driver...but dont know much about what are the better places (in terms of selection..prices ..etc) and brand names (especially if someone has a preference ..if so why..or even stay away from this model/manufacturer....)..

I have been reading a lot of posts here about installation process/experiences etc...great ideas there...

Thanks a bundle...

Sean

[brackish]

while their inventory is limited, best place I've found for electrical items is Genuinedealz.  Do a search

Best prices I've found on almost all electronic instruments is Ultimate Passage.

Have fun with your projects.

[Rookie]

Well I definitely like the Ultimate Passage..they have good selection and prices are very competitive...

[NateD]

I don't know of any brands to specifically stay away from, but if you are in salt water you will definitely want marine grade components. Crimped connectors are better than soldered in a marine environment (good cheap ratcheting crimper: http://www.amazon.com/Titan-11477-Ratcheting-Terminal-Crimper/dp/B0069TRKJ0). Ancor wire and connectors are high quality, also high $. Sea Dog and Blue Sea brand products are mid-quality marine grade products. I don't think I would pay a big premium for breakers compared to fuses. In 5 years of weekend cruising I haven't blown a fuse yet. I think the factory panel in my 1992 CP23 has 5 switches, which seems to be just enough. One idea to avoid needing a large switch panel is to just do a fuse block (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|296553|336270&id=1334726) near the battery for items that have their on/off switches or don't need to be switched on/off (electrical outlets, fans, interior lights).

The 23 has a tendency to squat a bit in the stern with the weight of the battery, motor, and crew. So if I was going to fully rewire my boat I would move the battery, either into the bow or the keel. The disadvantage of putting it in the bow is the possibility of the weight up there increasing weather helm and creating a very long (expensive) wire run for your outboard if you have electric start/charging. The disadvantage of putting it in the keel is the possibility of the water level in the keel rising to the level of the battery terminals and shorting it out, potentially stopping the bilge pump which should be pumping the water out from working. I think I would lean toward putting it in the bow.

My biggest piece of advice is to live with the boat as-is for a year (assuming the wiring is not a safety hazard) and then you'll have a better idea of priorities. After getting both of my Com-Pacs I immediately started thinking about all the things I was going to change and upgrade and how I was going to rewire it. On my CP16 I never ended up changing anything about it, and with my CP23 I've only added a couple 12volt outlets and cleaned up some of the wiring. Of course, if you have a large boat budget and enjoy doing the work, then go for it and redo it all right away!

[Rookie]

Nate..

I very much appreciate you advise...and wisdom. You are absolutely right about living with the boat for a while before committing money and resources. Very well said. I just bought the boat and electric panel is pulled out because no mast lights and steaming lights need to be installed.  I am debating putting in new lights and hooking the existing panel back up or going for broke. Installing new panel with enoug connectors that will allow me to put in additional items i wish to add, such as 12 volt socket or two, MFD for wind/speed/temp etc.

Regards,
Sean

[moonlight]

I must admit, that's the first time I've seen BLUE SEA SYSTEMS called mid-grade.
IF you really want a panel with meters (voltage and amperage are always high on my list too!), Blue Sea is great.  So is Bass and there are others, but Blue Sea has awesome off the shelf configurations which you can get retail through Defender or Fisheries Supply, or me.
Write out your list:
Nav (sailing)
Nav (Steaming)
Nav (anchor)
Foredeck and/or spreader lights (deck lights)
Fore cabin
Main cabin
Stereo
VHF
Nav electronics
Bilge
AUX outlet
.... and that's 11 separate circuits without putting on my thinking cap.  Fuses would be easier, but 5A breakers would do as well.  Especially if you replace fixtures mostly with LED, well, you'll never get near 5A on anything though.

[brackish]

I must admit, that's the first time I've seen BLUE SEA SYSTEMS called mid-grade.
IF you really want a panel with meters (voltage and amperage are always high on my list too!), Blue Sea is great.  So is Bass and there are others, but Blue Sea has awesome off the shelf configurations which you can get retail through Defender or Fisheries Supply, or me.
Write out your list:
Nav (sailing)
Nav (Steaming)
Nav (anchor)
Foredeck and/or spreader lights (deck lights)
Fore cabin
Main cabin
Stereo
VHF
Nav electronics
Bilge
AUX outlet
.... and that's 11 separate circuits without putting on my thinking cap.  Fuses would be easier, but 5A breakers would do as well.  Especially if you replace fixtures mostly with LED, well, you'll never get near 5A on anything though.

I would certainly avoid that kind of complication for a boat as simple as a 23.  Certainly consolidation is in order.  You should think in terms of systems that have to be independent because of their current draw or method of use or that can be consolidated.  For instance all cabin lights, AUX outlets, Stereo, VHF, etc are either switched at the point of use or require no switching.  These devices can be on a single, properly sized breaker and used independently of each other.  However, the breaker protects the circuit from overheating , so in the cases of the radios, they should have a provision for inline fusing to protect the device.  The bilge pump switch, if you have a float switch and auto option should not go through your panel.  It should go directly to the battery so that it can be left in auto at all times.  You don't have to remember to leave that panel switch on or worry about a main dropping it out.  Lights like your compass should be tied to the running light breaker so that it becomes illuminated when you turn on the running lights.  Items like Deck and Anchor and Steaming need to be independent, no switch at the device point.  If you think about it logically, you can limit the number of breakers or switches in your panel.  

Two of the breakers below are dedicated to Pressure Water (needs to be independent, draw and to avoid pump cycling), and Tiller pilot (draw).  I've managed to get everything else in the remaining breakers within their capacity.  I did have to add a ground buss in order to accommodate the number of conductors.

This panel is current factory.  It includes an AC section for shore power.  You might check with them to see what a base panel would cost.  Sometimes they surprise you with favorable pricing and it would have the logo.  Maybe they would sell you the face plate and you could build it up from there.

The second picture is of the bilge pump switch.  Necessary for a non inboard 23 with no thru hulls?  I'm not sure.  I've never had a drop of water in the Bilge for the thing to pump, and I'm not sure it would keep up with an at sea incident.  

[Bob23]

   I'll throw my 2 volts in here and also recommend "Sailboat Electric Simplified". It'll be the best $14.63 you ever spend, guaranteed. It really helped me when I rewired a new panel into my 1985 23/2 which I located on the shelf just forward of the cockpit wall, starboard side. 
   I've thought about relocating my battery to the storage locker just forward of the bulkhead but never got around to it. It's about the same distance to the panel as the factory location in the cockpit locker. I think it would improve the handling of the boat a bit but doubt it would add weather helm based on how my boat currently handles.
   I would not be without a bilge pump on my 23. Sure, it couldn't keep up with a major hole but it could manage a smaller one. Remember- the after section of the keel is hollow and if holed, could sink the boat.
Bob23