spinnaker

[jeffcom16]

  Hi, Was sailing downwind the other day and had to furl up the jib as it kept thrashing about too much. I made ok progress with the main all the way out , but can't help wondering how much faster I could go with a floationg spinnaker. Has anyone had any luck using a spinnaker (without boom) on a 16?
all help appreciated
geoff

[JTMeissner]

Geoff,

The picture below is not my boat; found it online some time ago when researching original purchase and sail options.  I do not have a spinnaker, but do have a 155% genoa that works well in light air both up and downwind.  A whisker pole would be nice for those occasions when the best line is almost straight downwind (watch the gybes), but it is manageable without.


I couldn't find a picture running downwind, but this should show the size of the sail.  If trying to simplify and not need a pole, perhaps a gennaker would be a better fit?

-Justin

[skip1930]

Your talking about an asymmetrical spinnaker, a sail without a pole.
A light sail, 3/4 ounce, mine is a star cut design, just for looks.

Mine works fine on the CP-19.
She is tac'ed on the bow sprit and clewed on the stern cleat.

When she pulls, she drives the bow down into the waves in an easy blow. I don't know if I'm pulling the stern cleat up, pushing the bow down.

For your boat point a little bit off the wind and the head sail won't flap so much. Let out a lot of sheet. Make a balloon out front.

skip.

[NateD]

My CP16 came with a symmetrical spinnaker, but I never used a pole with it. It certainly was nice going downwind with it, but a 155% genoa with a homemade whisker pole would get more use. If you can find a used spinnaker cheap, go for it, but if you're going to be shelling out for a new sail, a large genoa would probably be a better value.

I don't have any pictures of my CP16 flying the spinnaker from a distance, but here is what it looked like on board.

[brackish]

Agree with Nate, no matter what size your current jib is, a pole for it to go wing and wing down wind will really increase your speed and make the sail much more comfortable.  I do have an asymmetrical but find I use a poled out genoa much more often than the spin.  For a 16 you can probably make a pole for very little or you can buy a telescoping pole for about a quarter of the cost of a spin.

[jeffcom16]

  thanks for all your advice, as usual this site amazes me....I have a self furling jib as I sail alone a lot, so cannot change out the sail, so figure I need an asymmetrical spinnaker. If anyone out there knows where I might be able to purchase a light one please let me know

many thanks to all!

[kickingbug1]

    i agree with the pole. luckily my 16 came with a whisker pole and it is super for downwind work. set the pole and just watch the main. couldnt be smoother. gonna try it with a genoa this summer

[Salty19]

Hi Jeff,  The advice here is great.

A whisker pole is not an essential piece of equipment, but as you've found the headsails tend to flop around with lighter, flukier winds.
Power is lost, sail wear increases and captains' patience runs thin.  The whisker pole will fix these issues.

One can rig it DIY for dirt cheap, or if you want to buy it, get this one:

Brand: Forespar
Model Number: 404000
The mast ring is included. The ring needs to mount along the front of the mast at a height which will allow the pole to be horizontal when deployed.  That point might be different for any given jib or genoa, and depending on the exact cut of the sail.



You can't see it, but instead of a fixed ring, we use a track along the mast front on the CP19. The ring can be adjusted with a simple spring loaded pull pin for different headsail clew heights, to keep the pole horizontal.  However this adds costs, in our case I knew we would be keeping the boat for a long time, so didn't mind the extra expense.

Another thing to think about it how the pole will attach to the sail.  The Forespar model referenced above has a plastic spike which friction fits in the clew grommet. Another model has a spring clip loaded piece to fit on the end of the sheet, outside the grommet. I've used the spike type and they work well, but the clip on type might be easier to use singlehanded.

Another sail to consider is a drifter.  They can hank on or "fly" like a spinnaker, but are cut flatter and can perform upwind and downwind. They are also easier way easier to tack than a spinnaker because spinnaker run ahead of the headstay so you have to somehow get them in front when tacking. A trip to the deck.   Drifters can be attached behind the headstay and tack like a normal genoa.

We too have a furler, and use the flying drifter to quickly deploy it without taking down the furled jib or genoa. They work a lot like a genoa, just bigger but can't run quite as close to the wind.  The drifter is a 170% nylon.  These are only for light wind days.

Downwind with the drifter is a blast, and one can deploy both a drifter and genoa poled out downwind.

Not a very good pic, but here's the drifter.  Note the luff is not attached to the headstay or furler.

[Ted]

Never had one on my 16, but my 19 came with one.

I went out with Billy a few months back and he put up the spinnaker. It didn't register with me that it was to be tacked onto the bowsprit.

Hmmm...... mine has two sheets attached to the clews on each side. I have been sailing it with the sheets on each side running back to the cockpit along with the whisker pole on whatever side I am favoring in the wind. Am I supposed to be just tying one off to the bowsprit? My setup seems to work fine.

I assume my spinnaker is symmetrical based on how I have been using it.

[Pacman]

The three-wire rig of the C-16 is not well designed for flying a symetrical spinnaker.

This is because, with a three-wire rig, 100% the forward pull on the masthead is loaded onto two shrouds with no backstay or mainsheet to take the majority of the load.  In addition, the shrouds are located quite close to the mast so the loads are greater than they would be if the shrouds were attached to the hull further aft.  That is why many racers and cruisers use running backstays that are located well aft to share the loads.

An asymetrical spinnaker is another matter.  Asymetrical spinnakers are close cousins to the standard headsails because they are used along with a main sail.   The main sheet will have some tension and that will relieve some of the load on the shrouds by pulling back on the rig as the sail is loaded.  In effect, the tension on the mainsheet acts a bit like a backstay in that it balances the loads.

However, if you really want to use a symetrical spinnaker, you could add some aft lowers that attach to the mast just below the spreaders and attach to the hull further further aft.  If you wanted to be really "racy", you could even use running backstays if you were willing to deal with the added complexity. 

I like the three-wire rig on my C-16 because it is so simple but I would like to have a good asymetrical headsail