Towing?

[Glenn Basore]

Hi guys,

Are any of you using a tie down strap on the rear of your trailer to hold the boat in place while towing ? if so. where and how are you securing it ?
also, what type of tie down are you using?

When I bought my boat from the PO, it had a big 3 or 4 inch yellow "towing Strap" attached to the rear of my performance trailer. it ran up and across the teak, across the cockpit area over the teak and down to the trailer. this strap is adjustable with a big ratchet type device.

What I don't like about this strap is the ratchet device rides to high and close to the hull and over the years has chipped away at the paint. I tie a towel around it so it doesn't touch.

It also pulls the cetrol oil off the teak even when I put rags under it so it doesn't mark the teak.

I'm thinking of using the two rear boat cleats and two smaller tie straps to secure the boat to trailer but am concern about putting too much strain on those cleats!

I have notice after towing my boat she does move around a bit and from time to time, I stop to tighten the trailer winch down as the boat has walked forward a bit. I can never get her far enough forward when retrieving. always about 4-6 inch shy of "V".

Glenn B.

[deisher6]

Hello Glenn: 
I have thought about this myself and there is an obscure thread on it with some thoughts on the subject.  The main thought was that gravity is your friend but a strap is a good deal/idea.  I use one which is much like the one you describe, mine is a cargo tie down strap from a C-130.  I pad it up with towels but because of dust it still marks up the boat some.  Others have used a tie down bar across the stern, some integrated with a mast support.

We have a C-16II which has a bowsprit and bobstay.  In two seasons, I have yet to resolve the bow roller position.  The original set up had the roller in contact with the stay, but the bow would not bounce vertically.  However the roller placed downward pressure on the bowsprit (I think) adding to the demise of two bowsprits from splitting.  I now have the roller rigged so that is hits under the bow eye and use a second strap to keep the bow securely  seated against the 'V' roller on the winch pedestal.  It works but there must be a better way.

Hope that these thoughts help.

regards charlie

[beradthefish]

Glenn- I asked this very question to Com-Pac while I was there. They use nothing but the strap on the bow, even while delivering boats to the west coast. I towed mine like that from Orlando to Clearwater, FL to Columbia, SC hitting all sorts of dips, bumps and potholes and wasn't worried at any time. That said- a strap certainly couldn't hurt and is a prudent measure. I'm certain that if you encounter the right combination of bumps, turns etc. it could be an issue. If you're careful, the odds are in your favor.

[MacGyver]

In my 16 years so far working at the Marina, we have had 3 boats come in that werent strapped down, and all three were a had to be lifted off to  fix job.

On my 19 I go from the winch on each side down to the trailer.
The purpose is simple, keep the boat from waddling on the trailer, and keep it from jumping.
They are not tight. but snug.
I have used Line as well. And do pad areas and use duct tape.
Allowing that ratchet to rub and tap the side is just carelessness on their part.......

Just 2 weeks ago we had a guy bring a hunter 26 ballast boat in and said had compression damages... well compression to us is on the bottom and when we lifted it he did in fact have damage, it was from him hauling it about a half foot away from the V.

Turned out his compression damage was actually from a really wide strap (heavy haul strap) being used on the coamings and it actually put cracks in the gelcoat (which I am repairing now in addition to the bottom damage he caused from the looks of it when he brought it out.)

The trouble you have getting it in the V is one main thing, Trailer isnt deep enough.
2 ways to do this, extension, or chain/strap launch and retrieval.

I got the delight to work with Sailen69 on here using a chain to pull his boat.
That was a treat! We both laughed the whole time and no issues so it is possible to do on the cheap!

He is working on a new idea though. Maybe he will post the results.
Reminds me...... I still need to get him those pictures......

Mac

[Bob23]

I use a ratchet strap around the stern of the boat, crossing the boat about where the winches are while towing my 23. Even though I tow very short distances, I love cheap insurance! But I do admit to being a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy.
bob23

[Eagleye]

I can never get her far enough forward when retrieving. always about 4-6 inch shy of "V".

Glenn B.

Glenn,
According to the Madam's log we have launched and retrieved 20 times this year but, being that this is my first season owning a boat, that gives me a total career of launches to be....20.   Not a whole lot of experience here but I'll throw in what I have learned and what works for me.  

I had the same problem of getting the bow of the boat to make contact with the V-block.  It seems that because of the angle of the trailer on the ramp the V-block would make contact with the bobstay about 4 to 6 inches above the connection on the bow. (Could this be called the bobstay chainplate?)   I then would connect the winch strap to the bow eye and try to winch it tight but the friction would not let it slide down the bobstay.  If I moved the truck and trailer forward just a bit it would change the angle and let me winch it tighter.  Sometimes it would take one or two tries to get the V-block below the bobstay so I could winch it tight. On some boats it might work just to go deeper with the trailer but with the Eclipse setup going deeper only makes the distance further away and then if the keel is above the lower bunks it doesn't stay aligned between the bunks.

Conversely, when I backed the trailer down the ramp and the angle of the trailer and the boat changed the bobstay connection would drag off of the V-block with a violent thump.  This was because the bobstay connection to the bow terminated with an 1-1/2" section that was 90 degrees to the bow.












The V-block would snag on that connection and would have to hop off of it as the boat pulled away.

First I removed the SST pipe that the bobstay was made from.  I then carefully modified the connection bracket to make it more streamlined. I made a new bobstay from a piece of 1" SST barstock that was sculpted so the end mated to the bow without any lip.








Finally I replaced the V-block with a V-roller.








Now when I launch the roller just glides up the bobstay as the boat moves away quietly.  When I retrieve, as the roller makes contact to the bobstay, I can simply winch the boat tight and the roller lets the bow move up into position with the roller touching the bow between the bow eye and the bobstay connection bracket.

I should also add that when I launch I make a note as to the depth of the trailer in the water just when the boat starts to float.  I do this by watching the water level on my upper bunk.  When I retrieve I sink the trailer to that same point and I can then always just walk the boat onto the trailer until the bobstay touches the V-roller.


Allen

[Ted]

I most definitely used a strap on 16. As long as it doesn't chaffe anything, why not? It's additional peace of mind.

[Eagleye]

Hi guys,

Are any of you using a tie down strap on the rear of your trailer to hold the boat in place while towing ? if so. where and how are you securing it ?
also, what type of tie down are you using?

Glenn B.

Glenn,
I'm with Bob23 on this.  Belt and suspenders!
 
I too have heard about all the reasons for not using a tie downs, even from the owner of the boat shop.  My reason for using one is simple.  Without a tie down, you are depending on the security of your precious Com-Pac on 2 very tiny 1/4 " (?) bolts (the bow eye).  In the event of a sudden driving situation where you may have to make drastic avoidance maneuver, things could move.  Even if the worse case scenario were the bow eye being ripped out of the boat, would the strap have been worth the effort?  Nuff said.

 This is my setup.





My main 2" strap goes across the comings just in front of the teak.   It is padded with Cordura sleeves that I purchased with the strap.  I sewed up some terry cloth tubes to go over the Cordura.  I keep the terry cloth clean when I wash the boat and have seen no wear on the gelcoat or teak.  To keep the strap and ratchet away from the hull I made extensions that bolted on the frame u-bolts.  This gave me a good place to hook the straps and it also gives ample clearance for the ratchet.




Because I switched to the V-roller on the bow I did notice a little rocking on the keel so I use a small strap over the bow cleat down to the trailer which locks it all together and takes some of the stress off of the bow eye.  The strap goes across the SST on the bowsprit so it does not impinge on the gelcoat at all.

I use a light (orange) strap around the motor up to the stern arch just to carry a little of the load from the motor either from dead weight or from bouncing during trailering.  

The 2 blue straps are a very lightweight cam strap used just to secure the mast in place.  

Finally I leave as much of the rigging as I can attached.  The roller furler and jib are placed in a pvc cradle that I fabricated from a length of drain pipe.






I stow the furler, furler lines and the jib sheets in a drawstring bag that also aids in protecting the deck as it drags during the stepping process.  All that is secured to the mast with several Velcro straps to keep the furler straight and secure. The rudder travels in the back of the Toyota.

It all adds up to a little extra work but after trailering over 2,000 miles this season I have had zero mishaps.  

Thank you all for many of the ideas and guidance that have kept us safe.

Oh, the cat.... His name is Danforth....and if he stops being a good mouser.............

Allen

[skip1930]

"I can never get her far enough forward when retrieving. always about 4-6 inch shy of "V".

Glenn B. "

Well first off, every time I pull the two Com-Pac 19's out of the water they always are 3 to 4 inches short of snubbing up into the vee block.
Both trailers have rollers and not a flat wooden board for the keel to sit on. I want the keel to roll on rollers and not slide on wet wood.

Once up on land in the parking lot the solution I use is to crank as much 'pull' into the winch as possible and drive ahead then slam on the brakes.
This has never failed to shove the bow into the vee block firmly. Works great. Remember to crank the 'slack' out of the winch strap as the hull has moved forward.
-->Any 'timid' application of breaks will only creep the boat up a tad toward the vee block and repeated stop and go's will be needed.<--

Then the back stay is loosened, the Harken pin pulled, and the mast walked back down, electrics disconnected, tabernacle bolt out, and the mast placed on the transverse 2 x 4's that have been U-bolted to the bow and stern pulpits. The mast sits slightly off center and this allows for an easy access through the hatch to go below.

We don't tie the stern to the trailer, but if you do, just hook the cargo straps under the flange of the 'C' channel. On both our trailers, loops have been factory welded to the 'C' channel for this purpose. To limit scuffs maybe patches of household rugs turned fuzzy side down would help?

Bare in mind, every hull needs to be fitted to the hull bunks [by that I mean arched to match the curve of the hull] the first time the hull is supported by the trailer.

To do this a roll-a-round floor jack is placed under each vertical leg supporting the hull bunk and when the 3/4 inch keeper bolt is backed off. The jack is used to gently push or relax and arc the hull bunk to the hull's shape. I use a single layer of shop rag between the hull and the carpeted hull bunk. This is a gauge and when I can pull the rag out from between the hull and the bunk all is well. If I can't pull it out...the fit is too tight indicating too much pressure between the hull and the bunk. On some boats this pressure 'oil cans' and indents the hull.

The vertical leg adjustments for the hull bunks start with the middle supports and work out to the end verticals. This may have to be done several times to achieve the perfect fit.

There was a fellow on the site not too long ago who said that his kid had strapped the hull to the trailer so tightly that the hull colapassed and the fiberglass shattered...apparently strapping too tight is a bad thing. The hull should not jump out of the arched hull bunks. And the keel bunks have sides to keep the boat centered so what's to worry about?

skip.

This set-up puts the vee block where is should be, and not on the eye or Dolphin stay.

I flip flopped the jack and winch to move the boat further forward for more tongue weight.

[brackish]

Here we go, the strap thing again.  My position is clearly stated in the several posts I made to this thread the last time this came up.  My position, to my knowledge supported by sound engineering, remains the same. 

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=3806.0

[Glenn Basore]

Thanks everyone,

Many of the suggestions I have tried or use, I do have a roller at the bow.

I think the launching condition for the previous owner was a shallower ramp angle allowing the boat to float off or onto the trailer for his ramp condition.

If it was shallow as I expect it was, this would allow the boat to come right up to its proper resting postion that he had adjusted the trailer for. I know he had moved the vertical riser as far back (towards the back of the trailer) as possible as evidents by the old scuff marks and paint discoloration. It cant go any further back because of the trailer flares out at the point.

He also lower the vertical riser about 6 inches so the roller is under the bow eye bolt.

The boat looks like it is in its proper postion with it being evenly center (front and back) on the keel bunk. my tong weight seems to be proper as it tows good.

If you look at the vertical riser you have the ladder on the right side. It appears that if I took the vertical riser off and turn it around so the ladder is now on the left side, it would allow one to move the vertical riser back another 4-6 inches which would put everything in its proper postion.thats because you gain from the desing of the bolt on clamps.

I think I will move my strap to the forward postion as shown, I think this is better as it is not on the teak and can be padded better.

I do like having a tie down of some sort on the back of the boat.

Rain again today!

Thanks all,

Glenn