CP16 main sail reef point location

[MaritimeElevation]

I am going to add reef points to the main sail on my CP-16 MK1 as a winter project. Wind speed in my local sailing area is typically around to 15 to 18 mph with gusts 20 to 25 mph during summer afternoons. Doing some basic calculations, placing the first reef point 24 inches up the luff would give a sail area reduction of 20-22% which seems about right given the short height of the CP-16 rig. Where do others have their reef points placed and how do you like them in gusts of 20-25 mph when flying the stock size working jib on a MK1 rig?

I scoured the forum and could not find any info on this topic. If somehow I missed it, please point me to the thread.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

[skip1930]

Might be able to estimate where the reef points are from these two pics. On a CP-19 the top-o-mast to water line is 25 foot for scale. Bare in mind that the main sail does not make it all the way to the end of the boom. You can see where the end of the sail is.

Not a big deal to pop a few holes in the sail between two sheets of re enforcing sowen on sail cloth followed by metal eye grommets along a line from mast to end-o-sail. Once in insert 'small stuff' through the grommet, and knot in a stopper knot on both side of the grommet. The small stuff has to be long enough to easily tie a square knot under the boom and the sail's flake. Locating the 'line' of holes is the only question. Oh and you'll need a gooseneck with a hook for the tac.

Reef rigged for heavy air. Comfort & Joy tied to new dock.

skip.

[sailen69]

I like this post.  I also have a CP-16 I without any reef points in the sail.  I have thought about asking Hutchens' if they have any specs for reef points with our CP-16s, and asking here on the forum.  I have used the roller reefing option with the boom from time to time.  I would prefer to have reef points in the sail and use a reefing line.  Just from my un-educated experience, I was thinking of putting in a set of reef points that would be the same as two full revolutions of my boom.  I just put my boat in storage for the winter months but I will update with a measurement when I can.
Rich

[JTMeissner]

Rich, might be hard to see in this photo, but it looks like a tad more than what two revolutions of roll would give you.  In this photo of my original mainsail, you can see the reef point grommets just under the numbers on this side (look for the sail reinforcement).  Looks to be about between 1/4 to 1/3 of the sail height.  I might have this sail at the house to take measurements after work; I'll update this post if it's there. UPDATE: measured the height from the tack to the reef grommet, and it was 44-45 inches (sail is worn) and above the first batten.  Seems like a large sail reduction and way more than my current sail.



On the new sail, the reef appears to be about 18-24 inches up (about head level in this photo).



Or, see the reinforcement through the sun in this one:



The first time I really needed to use a reefed sail, I didn't have it rigged (and forgot about using the roller feature).  I tried several both jib only (110) and main only, and found I could make the best, slow progress with the main by itself (barring dropping both and motoring, which I also did for a stint).  Using the new sail, reefed, with the 110 jib worked well when I needed it during later sails.

-Justin

[carry-on]

My main was made by Sodstad. Measuring along the luff, the reefing grommet is 28 inches above the tack grommet, center to center. The sail is a 1997, so there is probably some stretch.
I think the main sails were consistent on CP-16s of various years, about 72 SF. My reef reduces the main by 18SF+/- a 20% sail area reduction.
I've rigged the reef for drill but never used it.
You may want to google National Sails or Super Sailmakers. Both are familiar with ComPacs and would likely give you their standard for the reef points.

[NateD]

If you're only going to have 1 reef point, I would suggest a deep one, but if you're also equiped with the roller reefing then you could always take a couple wraps to shorten some more I suppose. Anyway, here is my thinking. The CP16 already has some weather helm, especially on the earlier models (you said yours was a first generation), so for better balance you're going to want relatively more sail area forward, hence a smaller main sail if you leave the working jib up. I had the same experience as JTMesissner, that if you only have 1 sail up, my first generation CP16 made better progress with just the main, but if there were whitecaps it was often impossible to tack with just the main, so my preferred sail plan in strong wind with waves was a deeply reefed main and the working jib. The helm was more balanced and it was easier to tack (and it made heaving to possible).

[MaritimeElevation]

I think the main sails were consistent on CP-16s of various years, about 72 SF.
You may want to google National Sails or Super Sailmakers. Both are familiar with ComPacs and would likely give you their standard for the reef points.

According to Gerry Hutchins, the original CP16 MK1 mainsail is 72 sq ft and the original MK2/3 mainsail is 65 sq ft. In terms of reef point placement, I would think that the 10% difference in sail area between the two would make for a different optimal placement. Below is the info Gerry sent when I asked Hutchins about rig dimensions:

COM-PAC 16 MAIN-72 SQ.FT., JIB-43 SQ.FT., I-12.75, E-8', P-15.35' J-4.5,

LP-6.08', GENOA-60 SQ.FT., GENOA LP-9.08', CR.  SPIN.-180% MAX.  GIRTH-1.8XJ

COM-PAC 16/2,16/3 MAIN-65 SQ.FT., JIB-55 SQ.FT., I-14.25, E-7.5', P-15.45, J-5.5', LP6.67, GENOA-65 SQ.FT., GENOA LP-8.65', CR.  SPIN.-180% MAX GIRTH-1.8X


I sent an email off to National Sails requesting their preferred placement and angle to the foot of the sail. I am still waiting to hear back. I will post the info when I do.

[JBC]

MaritimeElevation's post is very useful and contains some authoritative sail info and measurements.  I would think it would be appropriate to include this info in the first post on this forum (p. 46) of ComPac 16 info, or update that post with the new info.  For example, there is an open question in the original post concerning the measurement "P," for example.  The most recent info seems to settle the matter, depending on boat model.

I appreciate the updated info, because until now I didn't have all the correct measurements that apply to my ComPac 16/III sails.  Most helpful!

[MaritimeElevation]

Here is the response I received back from National Sails. I asked specifically about the main sail for a CP-16 MK1:

"For double reefed mainsails the reefs are normally placed at 12% and 24% up the luff, running parallel to the foot. This is not written in stone, of course, and deeper reefs are common.

Dirk Sharland
National Sail Supply, LLC (Rolly Tasker Sails, Florida)"

[Salty19]

MaritimeElevation's post is very useful and contains some authoritative sail info and measurements.  I would think it would be appropriate to include this info in the first post on this forum (p. 46) of ComPac 16 info, or update that post with the new info.  For example, there is an open question in the original post concerning the measurement "P," for example.  The most recent info seems to settle the matter, depending on boat model.

I appreciate the updated info, because until now I didn't have all the correct measurements that apply to my ComPac 16/III sails.  Most helpful!

Great idea, I took care of that and made it a "Sticky", so the CP16 specifications will always be at the top of the first page.

By all means members should add to that post when they come across specs.

[MaritimeElevation]

I pulled out my MK1 72 ft² main sail today and measured the luff at 177". Per the 12% up the luff and 24% up the luff advice of Dirk Sharland/National Sails, this places the shallow reef at 21.25" up the luff and the deep reef at 42.5" up the luff. This seems on par with the existing reef points in other member's sails. I will use these numbers to proceed with my project this winter.

UPDATE 5/30/13: I installed reef points over the winter at the locations listed above. I sailed yesterday on Donner Lake, CA in conditions 15mph gusting to 22mph. I was very comfortable sailing on the shallow reefed main and working (stock size) jib. The boat with foiled rudder still had a small (desirable) amount of weather helm. I am very pleased with the reef location and performance in those conditions.

[skip1930]

Take a look~see at this very nice gaff rigged vessel.
Not only many reef points on the one main sail but also on the head sail.

The harder one looks at this picture, the neater it is. And where is this river? I'm thinking the U.K. or down on the inner coastal way. Down in Brackish territory.
skip.

You know, hold Ctrl down and tap + to enlarge picture. Hold and tap - to shrink back down