genoa track installation

[kickingbug1]

      im interested in installing genoa tracks on the top of the coaming on my 16. this area appears to be pretty thick. is it sprayed with a hard foam underneath? i want the tracks to be attached with through bolts, plates and nuts. can some of the "foam' be removed?

[skip1930]

I'd think about putting the tracks on the deck along side of the cockpit combing...I don't know why. Just because. I find my arm leaning on-top of the combing quite a lot. So genoa tracks under arms seems uncomfortable.

And any sprayed in expanding foam under these areas could be removed. I used a 4" dia grinder to remove mine for my Rayathon ST-40 Bi-Data instruments under the vee birth of my CP-19. Cut the foam with a knife or grinder, chip it out of the way, chemically dissolve it [not recomended], I don't know what a paint stripping heat gun would do.

I think the tracks are pre drilled and counter sunk on 6 inch centers, so ss counter sunk flat head machine screws with flat washers [to spread out the stress], and lock washers with ss nuts or nyloc nuts would be fine. It's absolute more un necessary work to cut, fit and drill a backing plate. If this is done I'd pick 1/4 inch aluminium flat bar. The fiberglass that these counter sunk screws go into is a woven resign impregnated fiberglass cloth. Not a blown in chop fiberglass matt. It is stout. Locate the track. Since the deck has a sheer to it start in the center and work out to both ends.

Only two places that any expanding foam on a Com-pac is necessary. And none of it is for floatation if the boat becomes swamped. There will be NO SAVING A FIXED KEEL COM-PAC THAT HAS FLOODED. Get away from the boat as she sinks. One place is for stiffness under the cockpit sole to keep that from oil canning under foot. The other is for quieting the skipper's and crew's nerves in the 'sheer water', keeping the hull from booming and pounding when beating into the wind, and that's up under the bow and vee birth area. The area I use for storage under the vee birth by cutting a 16" x 16" hatch behind the compression post.

skip.

[wes]

 I'm 100% with Skip on this one. The factory installs the genoa tracks on the side deck outside the coaming. This location keeps the coaming clear for arm resting (and for stepping on and off the boat when docked), and also provides a good angle for the sheets between the track car and the winch.

Wes

[Rob]

On my 16 the jib and genoa tracks are mounted on top of the coaming ,It makes it real easy to use them and there not in the way .I have 2 tracks each side and it very easy to move the car from track to track .  When I bought my boat they were just screwed down into the glass. I later cleaned out some of the foam thur the screw hole and filled the void with thicken epoxy . Hope this helps  Rob

[Salty19]

There isn't a horizontal location on a cp16 coaming except up top. That's your only real option. Saw out the foam and bolt it down. If you can heat and bend the track, that would be ideal

[JTMeissner]

Just a thought...  Is there any reason to not mount the track on the coaming outside vertical surface?  My thought is that if the track ran on that surface, the bending of the track would be along the thinner cross section instead of the flat, and the bend would be easier to induce.  The block car would likely bend/twist pretty much the same with a sheet running through it.

My thought is that a car like this would work pretty much the same regardless if the track was on the vertical or horizontal surface.

The 16 doesn't have a lot of room on the deck outside the coaming, though I suppose not too much is needed.

-Justin

[Solid_Tude]

      im interested in installing genoa tracks on the top of the coaming on my 16. this area appears to be pretty thick. is it sprayed with a hard foam underneath? i want the tracks to be attached with through bolts, plates and nuts. can some of the "foam' be removed?

I just had my marina install Harken tracks on mine and I described how they did it.  More info here in this forum on another section: http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=5738.0

[NateD]

Just a thought...  Is there any reason to not mount the track on the coaming outside vertical surface?  My thought is that if the track ran on that surface, the bending of the track would be along the thinner cross section instead of the flat, and the bend would be easier to induce.  The block car would likely bend/twist pretty much the same with a sheet running through it.

My thought is that a car like this would work pretty much the same regardless if the track was on the vertical or horizontal surface.

The 16 doesn't have a lot of room on the deck outside the coaming, though I suppose not too much is needed.
-Justin

Interesting idea. The only negative I can see is almost all of the force from the sail would be "pulling" on the lower side of the track, instead of evenly pulling on both sides of the "T" if it were mounted on a horizontal surface. On a much larger boat this could be an issue, but I think on the 16 you could get away with it given the relatively light forces involved. I would be sure to through bolt it in this case though.

[skip1930]

Without the jam cleats those tracks and cars would seem to fit outside of the combing, on the deck wouldn't they?

Do we need these on a CP-16? Don't really know.
Where do the head sail sheets go on a factory stock boat?

skip.

[JTMeissner]

Everything is so much clearer with the photos.  Really makes me want to keep the boat a lot closer so I would be able to answer better.

Skip, the stock 16 only had a 110% jib, and it was sheeted inside the shrouds to cam cleats on the coaming at the front of the cockpit.  You can see these in the second photo from Solid_Tude, with the blue line which in his case looks to run to the furler (my guess).  I've tried with sheets both inside and outside the shrouds and prefer inside, even though the cam cleats seem to point outward a bit more than necessary.

Later iterations and users added genoas, and therefore required sheeting outside the shroud but to a point well behind the front of the cockpit.  From reading the forum here, it seems that about 130% you really have to make the choice to sheet outside the shrouds and a block somewhere towards the aft cabin.  The best point for this block of course changes with a furler and with point of sail, one reason perhaps why the later models had tracks.  In my profile photo you can just make out the genoa sheet coming off the 155 genoa about mid-boom in the picture.  I don't have any blocks at all, I run the sheet through the rear cleat and back to a jam cleat, a less than ideal solution.

Back on topic, it does appear that there may be enough space on the horizontal surface outside the coaming but above the rub rail.  This will depend on the lower hull profile in that area, but one may be able to put on the tracks with messing with the foam at all?

-Justin

[Solid_Tude]

Everything is so much clearer with the photos.  Really makes me want to keep the boat a lot closer so I would be able to answer better.

You can see these in the second photo from Solid_Tude, with the blue line which in his case looks to run to the furler (my guess).  I've tried with sheets both inside and outside the shrouds and prefer inside, even though the cam cleats seem to point outward a bit more than necessary.

Later iterations and users added genoas, and therefore required sheeting outside the shroud but to a point well behind the front of the cockpit.  From reading the forum here, it seems that about 130% you really have to make the choice to sheet outside the shrouds and a block somewhere towards the aft cabin.  The best point for this block of course changes with a furler and with point of sail, one reason perhaps why the later models had tracks.  In my profile photo you can just make out the genoa sheet coming off the 155 genoa about mid-boom in the picture.  I don't have any blocks at all, I run the sheet through the rear cleat and back to a jam cleat, a less than ideal solution.

Back on topic, it does appear that there may be enough space on the horizontal surface outside the coaming but above the rub rail.  This will depend on the lower hull profile in that area, but one may be able to put on the tracks with messing with the foam at all?

-Justin

JTMeissner, you're right, the blue line is my furling line.  If and when I do purchase a larger Genoa, like the 155, I do plan to sheet it outside the shrouds.  For a larger light air sail, I plan to use Harken Carbo T2™ 29mm Soft Attach blocks (Loop Block version) and rig them to the two aft corner cleats and plan to turn the jam cleats on the track around and switch them port to starboard and the starboard one to port to handle this scenario (as they just slide off the ends of the tracks). I know this sounds confusing, but if you look my second photo, it's easier to conceive.

This one, but imagine it looped around an aft cleat:

Good reasons for using these new all composite Harken Carbo T2™ Soft Attach blocks from their web page:

Why are so many people switching to soft attachments?

Racers like soft attachments because they are much, much lighter than shackles and metal attachments. They won't scratch or ding your deck and they are flexible, which means they align almost perfectly for a fair lead. You can mount them in a wider variety of places like booms and they won't bang against your boat (or your head!). However, soft attachments require regular attention to ensure they are in good condition. You should only consider using them if you frequently inspect your equipment or have a professionally maintained boat.

Here's a link to the Soft Blocks Q & A page: http://www.harken.com/blocks/QA_SoftAttach.php

Here's a video link to these Harken Carbo T2™ Soft Attach blocks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhaeqVKdoAk&feature=youtu.be

I've got mixed feelings about mounting the tracks on the horizontal surface outside the coaming but above the rub rail because of the working angles and for ease of use.  Sure it would free up space on the top of the coaming and not clutter the coaming for boarding the boat and for leaning against the coaming, but I find that sailing mine the way I have it rigged on top of the coaming works perfect and is easy to sheet and unsheet the fair leads.  The outside mounting scenario would be harder and more awkward to sheet and unsheet your fair lead IMHO.

[Salty19]

I'm having trouble picturing how the line would be routed aft of the genoa block.  Where would you cleat it?  If you put a cam cleat up top with the line pointing down, you will not be able to uncleat it without first reaching down and lifting the line between cleat and block-pinching your finger and putting you on the lee side. A safety issue and VERY inconvenient. Visualize the line angle where the track would sit..very tight. 

The CP16 side deck is almost non-existent compared to the 19.



Which is probably why the factor put them up top.

Pictured is the ronstan 1"  (or is it 3/4", I forget!) C-track with a Hutchins supplied Ronstan Bullseye Cam cleat.  Full adjustment (5 foot long tracks) for furling, line can be uncleated anywhere in the cockpit.
Problem is the track needs to be bent for the coaming.  Doable with a lot of heat and anvil/sledge, or perhaps a metal brake of some sort.  Or put a rail on like above and the track can be straight.

Kick, I have two 18" Ronstan C tracks if you want them. A cold beer or two at CLR2013 should be adequate compensation.