Radio, wiring, and electirc power.

[Citroen/Dave]

My 'new' 1987 CP16, ,"Slow Dancing", has been a fun project, getting ready for a first sail.

The factory electric panel and related wires was, however, a rats nest on the back side of the bulkhead. Loose bilge pump wires, radio wires, house panel wires, house light wires, and etc., held together with battery alligator clamps. Several comments:

1.)The owner-installed-radio with removable front panel, you know the brand with the marine flags, had very little sound output in spite of 200 watts of output and four speakers.  That's 50 watts per speaker. Four speakers in a C16 cabin and not enough volume for the cockpit!

The wires to the speakers are too thin.  The cheapest best upgrade one can make on any sound system is to increase the diameter of the speaker wires.  Those skinny wires that came with the radio prevent full power from reaching the speakers.  Even expensive home sound systems are sold with wires that are too skinny.  Why spend thousands for crappy sound?  I don't understand manufacturers that dampen the quality they sell.

I managed to fry the radio with all the loose rats nest wires flapping about.  I wonder if anyone has the Sony brand and if it is any better? I'm thinking of replacing the house radio with a portable radio just to get the load off the main battery.  Plus, I do not see a good way to rewire the speakers of these "Marine Radios". I don't want to open a radio's box.

2.) The previous owner had installed jumper cables to a battery in front of the electric panel bulkhead and to the electric trolling motor, aft.  A loose connection from a second rear battery caused a wire to the motor to overheat. Almost a fire. He used hand tightened tiny nuts to complete the "quick release" wires to the motor.

My jumper cable wires are copper clad not solid copper! OK, good enough. The alligator clips were metal on one side and plastic for the other jaw, halving the electric connection. Not good enough! I have replaced the alligator clips with proper battery clamps, the kind with a knurled nut for hand tightening without using a wrench. More on that in a minute.

3.) I have a light weight jumper battery for the house lights, navigation lights, accessories, bilge pump, and backup for the trolling motor.  One of its outputs is a female "cigarette lighter" port.  I now have a fused, marine rated male "cigarette lighter" type plug rated at ten amps wired to the house panel that reaches the female port.  "Marine rated" has improved insulation and corrosion resistance.

Also, I have my main battery tied down in a box, just forward of the compression post.  It too has a marine rated female "cigarette lighter" connection wired to the batter cable clamp bolts so that I can also power the house panel, if the jumper battery goes down.  In addition I can take along a third battery in the aft lazeret.  The wires that are mounted at the aft end of the jumper cable, cable clamp bolts, run through a fused quick release Minn Kota connector, that goes to the electric trolling motor.

I now have solid connections and fuses throughout with more than sufficient area of contact to prevent overheating and fire.

I can use and/or solar charge all or any of the batteries by doing a quick release of either battery clamps or the "cigarette lighter" plugs:

4.) Four quick release battery clamps with knurled hand tightened nuts can each be easily reattached to four nylon tie down straps, mounted in four insulated locations: one each on the cockpit drain tubes, and two in holes drilled in opposite ends of the forward battery box.  I suspect that my wiring does not meet standards but I can easily control everything.  It is much better that the rats nest and loose alligator clamps rattling around.

[skip1930]

"I feel your pain son." Most Com-Pac boats are simply not all that weighted down with fistfulls of electronics and lights. Hardly any Com-Pac's use shore power or generator sets. "Keep it simple stupid". Prep is the only thing that matters. So what do we do? If the skipper wants to do it right.

Side Bar-->At Fourintune Garages Incorporated selecting only 'fine' British Motor Cars for restorations we did this...joked about rat's nests behind the switch panel and drank warm beer because of Lucas refrigerators? No way. We took the situation in hand and worked out the solution. But getting back to boats.

1~Go home and write down EVERYTHING that uses electrons for power from a wet cell battery or a solar cell. Learn what your dealing with.

2~On a 8-12 x 11 sheet of paper draw a diagram showing the 'power going to and power coming back from' all consumers of power. On the second or third diagram attempt the contact points for wires on individual switches should have shown up. This is direct currant and hence two wires are needed for each consummer. One red one black. A + and a -. Simple right?

3 ~The next step is 'GO BIG'. Like General Patton said, "They send over an 88mm we'll send them a 150mm." I digress again.
3a~Figure amps are high because volts are low. Volts push electrons down the wires and amps are high because of this resistance to this push.
3b~Amps don't care. They will pack up and get hot if they can't flow. Ever look into your toaster when heating an Ego? You see red hot heat.
3c~So resistance happens when connections are not soldered, too corroded, wet, too small, spliced in, grounded or some darn thing like that.
3d~The higher the gauge wire number, the smaller the wire. Gauge 18 or 20 might be OK for the car but use gauge 14 or 16 for your boat.
3e~A strand of wire is a conductor and the more conductors within that gauge 14 or 16 wire the better. Read the label on the wire insulation.
3f~Wire is ratty when loose, put both red and black wires into the vice, play out 40 foot, and use your drill motor to twist these together while pulling tight.
3g~Nice, but stop before these knot up. You have just made your wiring loom. Remember no splicing. Each thing has a set of wires. Simple. Necessary.
3h~Each wire going to a contact point WILL HAVE some kind of a crimped and soldered end on it.
3i~A bayonet, a circle, slide, a male female pin, but never an open horseshoe unless the screw on back of the switch won't unscrew out.
3j~Each soldered end will be tightly wrapped in 3-M quality PVC electric tape. I put a drop of super glue on the tape's end. I hate customer come backs.

4~Clean the boat out, cushions, hatches, sail bags, kitchen sink, potty, make room to work.

5~De-nude the entire boat of all that 'production fast, get-R-done, sloppy send it out the door wiring'. Use the old to pull the new twisted wire if need be. The new twisted wire will be marked as to where the old wire use to be. Select the correct end, select if it's red or black, cut, strip the insulation, crimp, solder, tape, glue and attach the new wire. It took about three days to rewire my Com-Pac 19 myself. Can't go wrong, just pull more wire, start over.

6~Start with the INSIDE of the mast with either the mast setting on the pulpits or in the yard on the grass. I like the idea of wire ties with the tails not cut off to silence the slap of wires within the mast. Cool idea! Your going to have to drill some holes for egress of new wires for new things on the mast. And keep these holes on the bottom of the mast away from the guillotine effect of standing the mast up in the tabernacle. Don't need to cut wires. Use good through the cabin top connectors and goop these connectors into the fiberglass. Don't pull and goop any wire through a drilled hole in any glass without wiring in a screw together connector. Finding connectors long enough for the thickness of the fiberglass can be hard. If you have a compression post run wires down the backside of the compression post under the vee birth, otherwise hide them best you can along the side of the dog house and down to the bilge/quarter birth and to the battery.

I ran a double set of twisted wires between the bilge pump and circut breaker [not fuse] because I did not know if one gauge 14 wire was enough if the pump ran for a long time in an emergency.

I forgot I made up a positive terminal strip and a negative termanal strip of twenty screw studs and nuts each screwed onto the starboard quarter birth bulkhead next to the battery. ALL wires terminate on these strips. Only two heavy wires go from the terminal strips to the battery. K.I.S.S. additionally I use in-line fuse holders on the red wires for every consummer of power. The solar cell has it's own wires and connects to the battery terminals. This battery has only four wires going to it.

It's your boat...do it the way you like. I was just talking...

skip.

http://youtu.be/IUAz9tOSFjY 

Thanks to McGyver for posting this video.

[Citroen/Dave]

Skip,

My hat is off to you. Thanks for taking the hours to write your response.  Might I suggest a slight rewrite and a submission to Small Boat Adviser? More people than Compac 16 owners would benefit from your expertise!

This season I am satisfied that I can run the motor with backup batteries.  I have clip on NAV lights, and the mast light and cabin light work.

All I need is one good day, with wind, to haul the boat to the lake to splash the keel the first time.  If the wind does not show up, I have two old batteries and one jumper battery for a back up to go for a cruse!

Best regards,
Dave

[MKBLK]

Nice job, Skip! Some very useful information for us ComPac sailors, especially those of us with 16's that didn't come wired from Hutchins. On Pegasus, I carry three batteries. No. 1 is the main group 27 deep cycle in a MinnKota Power Center. This provides major power for the trolling motor and is located just forward of the compression post. The Power Center is equipped with 2 female 12v outlets and 40 amp circuit breaker protection for the trolling motor. No. 2 is the "back-up" car battery - just in case, which resides next to the main battery. No. 3 is a 5-in-1 power pack (12v jump, 2 female sockets, air compressor, cabin light and 115v ac outlets) for my nav lights and miscellaneous stuff. I've installed a remote 3 socket 12v receptacle for easy access reaching from the cockpit for cell phone, Kindle fire, etc.

These three power sources are cradled in an egg-crate retainer I constructed just forward of the compression post. "Recycled" battery jumper cables carry the current aft to a small deck I built over the scupper tubes (I found it necessary to provide support between the bottom of the tubes and the hull). This platform contains a heavy duty bilge pump, terminals for the iron wind and an emergency cut-off switch. Eventually I'll install a volt meter in this platform (the MinnKota Power Center has an led volt meter built-in).

A major project (for me) will be the construction of a bulkhead forward of the compression post where I can install the cool ComPac electrical panel bequeathed to me from the good CP23 Koinonia and other goodies.

Marty K.

[Citroen/Dave]

In pulling the Dual radio to be junked, I found an obscure, tiny 10 amp fuse tucked out of sight on the back side of the radio box.  The fuse saved the radio from apparently an incorrect brush with loose hot wires: positive and negative reversed.  I have removed two of the four speakers.  Those mounted on the forward bulkhead remain facing the cockpit.

A wiring bundle of a zillion wires plugs into the back of the radio. I removed the plug, coiled and taped the many unneeded wires. Then I took off the very thin speaker wires and replaced them with much heaver wires from the plug to the speakers; I had a throw away extension cord that our cats had chewed on one end.

My experiment was driving one speaker with the original Dual wires and the other with undamaged 120 volt wires.  A noticeable difference in volume was noted between the two speakers.

I ran a wire from the antenna plug from the radio to the inside of the port shroud mount.  My standing rig is now the antenna for this radio.  Good reception and just enough sound for the cockpit!  Plus I have a spare set of speaker wires should half of the radio's amplifier fail.

[skip1930]

I have one of those AM/FM/CD radios with the 'flags' on the front take-off plate. A cheap~o radio from West Marine. Actually there is nothing cheap at West Marine, but I digress.

I run only two speakers and they are mounted on the bulkhead 'tween the vee birth and the quarter birth. The storage compartment makes for a nice 'boom box'.

Bare in mind 'FADE' plays a roll. Either the two speakers driven from the FRONT or REAR speaker channels. The unused channel can be turned off by fading it away. So plenty of power to the set of speakers. Likewise RIGHT or LEFT can be balanced for equal amounts on both driven speakers.

It is 25 foot from top-O-Mast to waterline on a CP-19. So reaching out and grabbing a signal is a snap. Add to that about 30 inches of VHM whip antenna above the mast.

Shakespeare sells a box that allows this antenna to be both a VHM and AM/FM receiver and one can be listening to Rush Limbaugh on AM or Puccini on FM, and when the VHM radio is scanning any signal not squelched out will interrupt the AM/FM signal.

Here is the best of both worlds. And best of all, all this cabling and wiring and the 'box' can be hidden. It's been working without question for years on Comfort & Joy.

skip.

The AM/FM/CD is under the lip of the XL cabin liner in this picture. The black dot above the radio is a separate push/pull on-off power button. Otherwise this radio sucks electrons from my battery even when turned off. So beware.