Initial Stability while stepping aboard a C16

[Citroen/Dave]

I'm still trying to find the right boat while I am dealing with the recent storm (still no power) and my sweetheart moving in (also a storm of sorts).

Especially after the recent discusions I think the ComPac 16/II is my boat, but I have yet to sail one.  

I stepped aboard the C16 that recently sold on E-Bay that was moored at the Washington Marina near Regan Airport on the Potomac River.

I found the boat rock solid, much to my amazement.  

My question is: was the keel stuck in the mud (low tide?) or do 16's really have almost no response to 168 lbs. on the rail?

Thanks,
Dave

[kearns]

Hi,

I don't know how "low" the low tide is, but the keel on the CP16 is 450 pounds on a boat that displaces only 1100 pounds.  There is a lot of stability there.  A reviewer once wrote about the CP 16 something like 'when you step aboard, she acknowledges you with nothing more than a gentle tip of the hat...' or words to that effect.  So, I'm betting the keel was NOT in the mud.

Kevin

[Tadpole]

This is the stuff that drives us old guys to drink...and makes our hair turn grey.  I started the thread "Compac 16 Performance and Stability"  because I had read so many conflicting reports about the C-16.  I wanted to find out the facts.

So Citroen/Dave, I understand your confusion about the stability issue.  I was just about to post this message when I noticed that kearns had beat me to it.  The passage he is referring to is from an article comparing the Montgomery 15 to the Compac 16 (http://www.msog.org/models/m15/sbj1.cfm)  "When you step aboard, it (the C-16) acknowledges your additional weight with only a deferential tip of the hat."

The only thing I can think of is that some folks are used to stepping aboard the Queen Mary, and to them the C-16 does feel comparatively tippy.   Never been on one, but I will find out for myself someday soon.  In the meantime, someone buy me a drink....quick.

Tadpole

[Pacman]

Hi,

I don't know how "low" the low tide is, but the keel on the CP16 is 450 pounds on a boat that displaces only 1100 pounds.  There is a lot of stability there.  A reviewer once wrote about the CP 16 something like 'when you step aboard, she acknowledges you with nothing more than a gentle tip of the hat...' or words to that effect.  So, I'm betting the keel was NOT in the mud.

Kevin
[/quote

+1 

C-16s are very stable because the hull shape provides a good deal of form stability and the ballast provides a strong righting moment.

I don't know of any other small boat that is even close to the C-16 in terms of stability.

[Tadpole]

After reading the various comments, it is clear that people have different perspectives on things.  Not necessarily right or wrong....just different.  Human nature!  For those of us seeking definitive answers, it can be frustrating...but then life can be frustrating.

Before retiring, I worked for many years as a professional photographer and videographer.  I have decided that once I get my C-16 (the decision has been made), I plan to produce a video addressing many of the issues we've been discussing here on the forum.

I'll show a lard-butt like me (210 lbs) stepping on the gunnels so viewers can determine for themselves if they think the C-16 is "tippy".   I'll do a two-camera shoot while tacking in various conditions so you can watch the compass swing while I'm beating to windward.  I'll show launching and loading, and a host of other issues as I think of them.

I would like to address all the questions I had when I started thinking about buying a Compac 16.  Maybe that would eliminate some of the confusion and frustration for the next poor soul who is at least considering a Compac 16.

My plans for the C-16 have always included videography...but that's another post.

Tadpole

[Pacman]

When stepping aboard any small boat it is good practice to step past the gunwales and step onto the cockpit seats.

This will minimize rocking at the dock and avoids unnecessary abrasion of the hull or rubrail against the dock.

As a Boy Scout I learned to get into a canoe by placing my foot on the centerline while holding the gunwales for stability.

I now use that technique when boarding my 8' rowing dinghy and, on my C-16, I do my best to step onto the inside edge of the cockpit seat as close to the center of the boat as possible.

A safer and more accurate test of stiffness would be to get away from the dock with the sails down and then sit on the gunwale to see how far she heels.

The boat will be free to move without interference and you won't risk scratching the boat on the dock.

C-16s are remarkably stiff.

[Bob23]

One key is to "step" aboard, not remain on the gunwales. In other words, keep walking. Even my 23 will tip a bit if I step close to the edge and remain there.
bob23

[Tadpole]

Theoretically speaking, I had already put the C-16 at the top of my wish list.  That said, you can't beat hands-on experience...which is why I requested input from actual owners.  The way it looks now, I'll be attending CLR at Lake Carlyle next month and will finally get the chance to evaluate some Compacs first hand.

One more thing I'd like to address, since it seems to have been misunderstood.  When I was speculating about filming someone standing on the gunwales to show the angle of heel, I was only speaking from a quasi-scientific testing standpoint.  I was thinking about loading the gunwales since that position represents the greatest tipping moment, other than pulling horizontally from the top of the mast.  Tests that measure engine life while running without oil are just tests...they are not recommendations on how to treat your engine.  Nor was my comment meant as an endorsement for stepping on the gunwales while boarding a boat.  I guess I should have been more clear!

Tadpole

[Bob23]

"I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw!
Looking forward to seeing your videos whenever you get your 16.
bob23

[Jason]

I got my 16 over winter and have been sailing it this spring/summer.  As someone who had sailed a snipe in the past, the CP16 is a very stable boat, both when you step on it at the dock, and when underway.  So far, its an excellent boat for the lake sailing with family that I use it for.  For someone who is not a great sailor (me) it has been a comfortable boat to sail. If one was accustomed to a 30 footer it would probably seem tippy, and if one was accustomed to a lighter boat it would probably seem stable.  Not a racer but a sturdy stable and relatively dry 16footer with classic lines.   My opinion.

[Citroen/Dave]

Salty 19,

I have put a deposit on apparently your neighbor's boat.  I hope to see the '87 C16/2 in a couple of days. Might even get a chance to step aboard to experience the "tip of the hat" before going down the road.  If I can, I will try to find you for a hand shake, a chat, and maybe a brew.

A ComPac in my future!
Cheers!
Citroen/Dave

[Salty19]

Dave--That would be fun to meet up.  I'll send you a PM with my phone #.

If for some reason we don't hook up, go walk down to Island Time and take a step aboard to compare stability. Just be sure you trailer the right boat home

That is a nice boat you're getting!  I recall you were looking at abused examples...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Jim's CP16/II.

So the Hoover marina will be back down to 1 Compac again.  Fleet of One.