First time sailors, scaring each other........

[MacGyver]

So my wife and I are both new to sailing, and on our first run, the two bold and ballsy minds, who thought they really had it running awesome on just the main sail, decided to put up the Jib.

In a giant mess of errors, she tied her sheet off, and I tied mine, as we went we heeled further than we felt was proper (who knows how far really, and we are noobs mind you) I untied mine only to have the jib grab on hers and start the adventure all over again.

After she untied hers and I got the Jib tied down to the deck, we sailed back in and bagged the Jib for when we have experience with the main down pat...........

So far we have been out 2 times since and according to my boss (40 years + sail experience) and what I describe he says we are doing extremely well, and that all my time working on them and understanding the boats like I do, I was able to put the principles together really well.

I still dont think we will get the Jib out soon. I understand it will increase our speed some and all that, but that heeling over is what scared us. My wife says the rail was 4 or 5 inches out of the water, but I cant say for sure, and I know a CP 19 is not really efficient that way....... I was more worried about heeling too far over and having worse issues.

With the main we have heeled the boat over (which is needed for the forward motion from what I understand) and we are fine with that, just not fine with getting close to rail in the water........

Any advice for when we do decide on using the jib and what conditions to start in?
My understanding is to not use the Jib only (as I have seen numerous sailors do) as it pulls on the mast improperly and can cause issues with the rig, that the main is what is used primarily, then add the Jib or Genoa to help air pass the main.
My understanding is that just using the Jib or genoa is "lazy sailing" and is utilizing things for what they aren't meant for...

Everyone will have their opinions, and I respect every one of them, Different people have different experiences, and I am hoping to collectively use them to decide when to use this Jib again, and in a much safer manor.

Thanks!
Mac

[JTMeissner]

Mac, understand the situation. 

Even though I have some years experience, I do get concerned about the Admiral's enjoyment of the sail and especially when I have my daughter on board.  This past weekend we finally had good winds on the lake (Beryl coming in), and I knew it was too much for the genoa we had rigged.  Even with just the main up, the Admiral was able to bury the rail on accident as I was unrigging the genny.  Tossed our daughter across the cockpit, which was no fun for all involved.  After that was cleared up, we realized that the small jib was still sitting in the sail bag in the boat shed...  So much for our preparatory checks.

So we sailed rather nicely with just the main.  I'm still wrong for not having put in the reefing ties, but with the rolling boom, I suppose I could shorten the sail by rolling her up.  Which is my recommendation to you, put a reef in or roll the main (depends on your rig) and you'll be less likely to overpower when you add the jib. 

Some other thoughts; be sure to point into the wind when raising the sail so you won't be instantly adding a heeling moment, or try raising it going downwind where the main might block some of the air and you'd be sailing "flatter."

Besides the speed increase, the jib should also assist with pointing higher, which can make upwind maneuvers a lot easier.  The foresail moves the center of effort forward, which will affect steering and pressures on the helm.  I would expect a sloop rig boat to be designed with the foresail in mind, you might find it somewhat easier/better balanced when you have the jib up. 

I left the inclinometer I just bought at the house (I really need to write this stuff down), so the "proper" amount of heel for my CP-16 is still a mystery.  However, I'm of the thought that you can just feel it; when the sail trim, point of sail, and weight balance (aspect of heel) are all in sync, you'll feel the boat glide with minimal effort.

-Justin

[gfspencer]

You can read our recommendations all day long but I'm not sure they will make you a better sailor or make you feel better when the boat heels.  What you really need is for someone with experience to sail with you.  So my suggestion would be to go to a sailing school . . . even if it is just for a weekend.  You and your wife will gain skills and confidence.

[skip1930]

The CP-19 hull sails fastest when standing up right. And is most comfortable at this attitude also.
In the really big winds I sail with the headsail only and have the main flaked and tied to the boom.
The boom is supported from a short jack stay cable off the back stay with a quick disconnect and the main sheet is dogged down. Keeps it from swaying about.

It took me five years of trying to put the hull down into the water far enough to have water slosh over the cockpit combing and out the scuppers. We were laughing so hard we nearly passed out from lack of breathing, of course everything and everybody went to the lower end. Mean old Mr. Gravity. Your not going to knock that boat over.

Now same situation with both the main and head sail up, unreefed will find the CP-19 rounding up circling and jibing. Don't do that. Relax the main sheet till the sail wrinkles at the mast. Pull it in til the wrinkle goes away. Sail the boat withthe sail loose but not flopping or snapping. That tears up the sail. Be sure to tie a figure 8 stopper not on ht e head sail sheets just in case one gets away.

What do you do on a windy day?

Reef at the dock. You can always shake out the reef on the water if you want to.

Once out of the slip and in the pond, turn in to the wind.

Raise the reefed main. Unhook the that short jack stay holding the boom up. That's an adder by the captain.

Set the main. Unfurl the head sail and crank her in.

Watch the stick on tell tails attached to your sails and get them blowing straight back.

By playing the headsail in and out you can see what part of the sail is working to drive the boat by watching those tell tails.

If the boat's going too fast, drag the O/B motor or trail 100 foot of line. I have a line with a 3 lb Hills Brother's coffee can attached in a bridle as a brake that I can tie to the stern cleat. Also use that as a 'shock absorber' when sitting at anchor in a swell. Or power boat wake.

This was the day I put the rail under.


Note the jack stay, the O/B drag, and head sail only, coated anchor chain stays put, boom vang, and strange smile on skipsters puss.
Should have pulled the winch handle for pic, and have at least the bottom half of the drop board in place.

[Billy]

Sloops are mention to have both sails up. My 19 won't come about without the jib.

Next time raise both sails and when the heeling picks up, let out the main. That will level her out.

When I sail up to the dock, I'm always under jib alone. You can luff a jib going down wind. You can't do that with a main.

[MKBLK]

Jason - You've learned a lot - fast! Skip and the others give some good advice. That figure 8 knot will make life easier when the air grabs the main. Also, if you deem the situation as being somewhat rough - a: wear a PFD, b. close and secure the hatch(s)! Probably the worst that can happen if you lean too far is you'll get wet! These boats are not unsinkable, but you'll really have to work at it to make that happen.

Bottom Line: Get back out there and use that jib! Just make sure the jib sheets are not tied down. If your boat has camcleats, use them to secure the jib sheet(s) and you can release them quickly by simply yanking UP on the jibsheet.  Most of all, instead of getting scared (although a bit of caution is a good thing), get out there and show some teeth! (That would be in the form of a grin as the spray cools your face and you feel like you're doing sixty!

Marty K.

P.S. Get a copy of Chapman's and read, read, read!

[shamblin]

maybe better not to tie down main or jib til you are more experienced. hold both in hand and pull in/let out for more/less sail power  as needed. 8-)

[bmiller]

Sounds like a reef in the main would have done wonders. That and whoever has the mainsheet in hand should be ready to let er out in the puffs along with a little heading up.