CP 23 Mark I vs Mark II

[OrionNC]

What is the difference?

[Greene]

April 2005 Sailing Magazine did a review of the 23.  Here is a paragraph of the article.

"There were several changes with different models and you should be aware of the differences. The first changes occurred with the model 23/2, which took place in the mid-1980s. This is when the popular hide-away galley was added, the interior finishing was upgraded and the bowsprit was added for much needed additional sail area. In the early 1990s, the 23/3 was offered and this model change included mostly small tooling upgrades. Small round portlights were changed to larger, oval ones for example. One model to look for is the rare 23 D, which includes a 10-horsepower single cylinder Yanmar diesel. According to Gerry Hutchins, only about 35 of these boats were built and they are quite desirable on the used market."

Hope this was helpful.

Mike

[skip1930]

"According to Gerry Hutchins, only about 35 of these boats were built and they are quite desirable on the used market."

Really?? I passed up a CP-23 D for my CP-19. Both sitting on their trailer side by side at Yacht Works in Sister Bay, Wisconsin. And two different marine designers.
As I remember the CP-23 stunk of diesel...and was $7,000 more. The used CP-19 was never in the water and came with a Harken '00' furler and a zero time 5hp Mercury.
In Small Craft Adviser years ago, a sailor piloted his CP-19 from California to Hawaii. Came back on a freighter. That primarily made up my mind.

I don't know if I'd want a CP-23...too big for one tired out sailor.

skip.

[HideAway]

HideAway is hull number 2.   It is a very basic boat.  No galley but it does have a large molded sink/counter top with several deep slots to store stuff. It also doubles as the first step.  There is no wood work below save the berths & bulk head.  No bow sprit of course.   Since there are no cabinets under the ports  the cabin's best feature is the wide settees that make very comfortable berths.  I converted the vee berth to the head with sink and sail storage.  A large vessel ran into us in the early morning hours anchored near Gulfport and since then I've not been able to sleep confined to the v berth.    The house is bare fiber glass - no wood trim.    I wouldn t mind having the bow sprit but I would not give up my settee berths for anything.

All that being said  we have had no real live aboard issues -  we have sailed as far as Boca Grande - 60 plus miles of open water sailing and are planning a cruise to  Anclote Key for a week soon.  We cook in the cockpit with either the grille or our Coleman camp stove.

Skip - the main difference between the 19  and 23 for us has been launching and other trailer related chores.  With the pickup - F150, tongue extention & boat we are 40 feet long backing down a serpentine one holer ramp with a crooked dock.  However I think it s a lot like comparing a two wheel drive pick up to 4 wheel---- You tend to get stuck in deeper snow drifts with the 4 wheeler-   We share your concerns about aging though and wonder how long we can continue.

[BruceW]

Hideaway,

My CP 23 is a Mark 1, but a user added bowsprit.

I have that molded counter you mentioned just inside the companionway. I use the impressions to keep loose things in.

Do you have a stove for your boat? I've got a coleman grill (propane) and a Cobb grill (insulated bottom, charcoal grill) I plan to use, but not sure the coleman will heat the coffee water, so I might be trying to fix my old Peak 1 backpacker stove; or, I could try something else, if I can find the right thing.

Curious what others might have added to cook with.

[Greene]

Our 23 came with the slide out stove, but we have never even tried it.  When we were sailing our 19 we used this little Gasone butane stove and it worked so well that we continue to use it on the 23.  They are dirt cheap online and you can purchase the butane cylinders at any Asian grocery store very cheaply.  The cylinders last longer than you would expect and really heat the water up quickly.  We've enjoyed many meals and coffee/tea made on it.



Mike and B

[MacGyver]

If someone would sell me a 23-D in a decent shape, I would buy it. I have found that diesels are easier to work on in comparison to gas engines due to the mechanics of the motors (and no we dont need a explanation of that set of differences.......)
The parts for Yanmars are readily available at what I consider fair prices, and those engines are reliable.

The smell of diesel and such can be a problem if not maintained properly, which typically amounts to seals on certain items like filters, etc.

I am no mechanic by trade, but wouldnt hesitate (and havent) working on one, and enjoying myself while i did so. I am sure my neighbors would like to see me messing about with that stuff again, they tend to congregate around in the shop when I work on projects.

back to the subject, it is my understanding that on all the Compacs, the major upgrade from MK1 to MK2 was the bow sprit which added some head sail area, as they are a different cut, which improved performance. The other guys have listed the comfort options above. You will lose storage space on a diesel. I have found the 23s to be nice for storage and it can still be pulled by a vehicle with a tow rating of 6000 lbs.

Mac

[brackish]

The Gasone butane stove that Mike pictures is what is provided on the slide out stove now.  It is what came with my 23IV.  I also can recommend it as a very good stove.  Inexpensive, clean, quiet, and heat efficient.  I think I saw an all stainless steel model at Amazon.

[Sedona Don]

I own a 23d and have not noticed any diesel odor.  Love that engine!

Don

[BruceW]

Guys, thanks for mentioning that butane stove; I had one in my old Suncat, and let it go with the boat when I sold it. I had forgotten how convenient and stable that stove was. I also use a french press. I found a large stainless one that I use camping and boating.

Might be much easier, that is, affordable,  to get one of those than this other one I heard about:

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276204|2276209|2276214&id=1343499

[Geoff]

My hull is number 3 (probably made a few days after Hideaways) and is a Mark I. It is spartan inside, but has a nice wood floor, attractive wooden bulkheads, the large sette bunks that Hideaway mentioned and a v-berth. My galley has been retrofitted by a previous owner from the original parts, and basically, he put the alcohol stove on the side, so that it stores hinged over a bunk and put the sink as part of a step-down from the companionway. The sink location works fine. I do not miss having a larger galley down below, although it could be nice for food prep if we were going to spend more than a single night on the boat. We've had four adults sailing on the boat before and then we've also had the two of us camp off the boat, and we just prefer to spend time in the cockpit, where we have table that can be rigged.

The other change we've had done to our boat (not by us) is the installation of a bow sprit. It's quite a good addition, and I wonder how well she'd point windward without it. With the bow sprit, we have a genoa on a roller furler, and that's a nice feature for this boat, especially because the deck was not designed to easily move from the cockpit to the pulpit area.

I concur with what everyone said: Mark II includes a bowsprit and a slightly upgraded cabin, but like Hideaway, I wouldn't trade those wide settes. I love the simplicity inside my boat, since I'm all about sailing, and not about hanging out on the boat.

Geoff

[BruceW]

I just got back from a visit to the boat, and I see that I have filled up those molded dips in the shelf that has the sink in it (also serves as first step into cabin). I probably need to put the items away, if I ever figure out where "away" should be, haha.

I think I'll pursue the less expensive stove (butane) and leave it at that for stove. Unless I overnight at anchor, I probably don't really need a stove.

I wonder if you other Mark I folks have done anything interesting with the storage areas. I still haven't decided which bunk to use for storage. I hope to use the v-berth to sleep in. We'll see.

I have extra sails; I guess I'll keep them at home instead of letting them fill up the seat lockers.

It looks like one of my POs has lowered the motor mount one step. That is, he took the old bottom holes and used them for the top, put new holes in below. This has the effect, I think, of not letting my motor tilt.

I'm going to need to either raise the mount back up or do something like Skip did and put a spacer in to keep the motor further out from the transom. I'm wondering though if I do that, won't it increase the torque or whatever the force is, on the transom, to have the weight further out.

Either way, I will have to motor over to the dock, take the motor off, and either hang it on the stern rail, or put it on the dock (4 stroke, so have to do this carefully) while I fix things.

Bruce

[brackish]

It looks like one of my POs has lowered the motor mount one step. That is, he took the old bottom holes and used them for the top, put new holes in below. This has the effect, I think, of not letting my motor tilt.

I'm going to need to either raise the mount back up or do something like Skip did and put a spacer in to keep the motor further out from the transom. I'm wondering though if I do that, won't it increase the torque or whatever the force is, on the transom, to have the weight further out.

Was there a 15" shaft motor on the boat at one time.  Can't think of any other reason to lower the mount from the standard position.

Yes, it would be better to keep the mount position as close to the boat as possible, In engineering terms, lengthening the moment arm increases the reactive force.  In practical terms you will squat a little more, already a problem with the 23 and the reason I changed motors,  and any forces will be slightly amplified. 

[BruceW]

Thanks, Brackish,

Yes, there was a short shaft 2 hp Johnson motor on the boat when I bought it. I now have the Tohatsu 25" motor on the boat.

I think I'll do the raising, and see if that fixes things. I recently saw a picture of your motor up and tilted, and it looks higher than I can get mine. The higher I go on the mounting setting, the closer to the hull and rubrail I get. I feel like the 3-4" rise when I re-do the mount will be enough to take care of this. I will then have to patch the holes below, I suppose with Marine Tex.

I'd like to only do this once, so I am really hoping the raising does the trick.

Looks like it will be less than fun to contort my fat self into that locker to reach the nuts to take them undone. Maybe there will be a teenager around who will like a bribe to help me with that part.