attachment to headstay

[rogue]

I recently purchased a CP16 from a gentleman who had done a lot of work on the boat. One of the improvements included an "L"  shaped piece of hardward (metal) attached to  the foot of the headstay (forestay ?).  Then attached to  the stemhead fitting.   The corner of the "L" is attached a line that goes back to the cockpit.  When the line is pulled, it has the effect of pulling  down on the headstay, pulling the mast forward.  When the line is released the tension of the mast is released and the mast straightens  up.   I was told that the former owner "raced" the boat, so  I assume the rake of  the mast was changed on different tacks. 
My question is ...is  my assumption correct?  Does the raking of the mast make that much difference? 
should i leave it on, or adjust the headstay for a slight windward performance and 86 the "L" shaped widget?

ROGUE
PS>>I just read this over...I hope it makes sense.....

[skip1930]

In order to pull the mast FWD with the head stay from a line on the deck and with no back stay, that means the side stays need to be slid FWD as well. Either that or bend the mast FWD. Does the mast straighten up or just unbend?

Side Bar: Lay on the VEE birth and look through the hatch and site up the mast. Is the standing rigging pulling the mast straight or is there a port/starboard kink pulled into the mast by uneven tension from the standing rigging shrouds? And the tighter the shrouds, the more that mast wants to poke through the bottom of the deckhouse/arch/compression post or hull.

On some boats it is easy move the standing rigging shrouds such as a racing Star Boat or Penquin. But aren't the side stays on a CP-16 'locked' into a none movable chain plate? Ther are on my CP-19.

Sure you can set the rig up for a raked FWD mast or a raked backward mast. But doing this on the fly when sailing? I don't know. What's the point? Hey if the headsail is really pulling hard will that rake or bend the mast FWD as well?

Is the boat sailing faster, straighter, point higher or does the skipper just need something to do while sailing?

skip.

[deisher6]

Hey Rogue:  Could the 'L' piece be used to rig a line to haul down the jib from the cockpit?  Some folks use such a line to douse a hanked on jib.

regards charlie

[rogue]

Hey Rogue:  Could the 'L' piece be used to rig a line to haul down the jib from the cockpit?  Some folks use such a line to douse a hanked on jib.

regards charlie

Hi Charlie,
Yes, there is a line to douse the jib.  However, I was wondering if rakeing the mast a bit forward (or back)  while sailing at different points would make any positive effects on pointing or speed.
Thanks for the suiggestion,
ROGUE

[rogue]

In order to pull the mast FWD with the head stay from a line on the deck and with no back stay, that means the side stays need to be slid FWD as well. Either that or bend the mast FWD. Does the mast straighten up or just unbend?

Side Bar: Lay on the VEE birth and look through the hatch and site up the mast. Is the standing rigging pulling the mast straight or is there a port/starboard kink pulled into the mast by uneven tension from the standing rigging shrouds? And the tighter the shrouds, the more that mast wants to poke through the bottom of the deckhouse/arch/compression post or hull.

On some boats it is easy move the standing rigging shrouds such as a racing Star Boat or Penquin. But aren't the side stays on a CP-16 'locked' into a none movable chain plate? Ther are on my CP-19.

Sure you can set the rig up for a raked FWD mast or a raked backward mast. But doing this on the fly when sailing? I don't know. What's the point? Hey if the headsail is really pulling hard will that rake or bend the mast FWD as well?

Is the boat sailing faster, straighter, point higher or does the skipper just need something to do while sailing?

skip.

hI sKIP,

The side stays are loose enough to allow the mast to lean forward a bit...and when I release the presure, the mast straightens up. Yes, the location of the side stays on the CP 16 are locked though they can be  adjusted for tension.   Perhapes the side stays are too lose? About how tight should the side stays be?
The way it is set up it ca be adjusted while sailing.  As I stated, the former "raced" the little CP16 so he may have some advantge to leaning ther mast foward on some points of sailing
thanks for the suggestions,
ROGUE

[Bob23]

Rogue:
   My 2 cents would say, yes- bending the mast, assuming one knew what one was doing, could improve performance by changing sail shape. That's why some performance boats have adjustable backstays to be able to bend the mast backwards. Maybe, because the 16 has no backstay, he chose to do his mast-bending via the forestay.
  Theoretically, at least, bending the mast forward could lessen any weather helm.  Me, I have no interest in such things as I think the benefits would be negligable. But I could be wrong.
I enjoy sailing too much to turn it into and engineering experiment although I do enjoy tweeking the boat. Considering I have a 23, mast bending is not an option.
bob23

[skip1930]

rogue asks, " Perhaps the side stays are too lose? About how tight should the side stays be? "

Taught sitting at the dock in no wind. If you grab hold of the stay and wiggle it you'll see the mast bend.

The windward side tighter then the lee side when sailing, the lee side will appear to be loose from spreader down to deck and a tad tighter above spreader to deck. Which ever tac the boat is on.

At least for my CP-19. This is my stock answer. I have not touched my standing side rigging for years.

skip.

[rogue]

Rogue:
   My 2 cents would say, yes- bending the mast, assuming one knew what one was doing, could improve performance by changing sail shape. That's why some performance boats have adjustable backstays to be able to bend the mast backwards. Maybe, because the 16 has no backstay, he chose to do his mast-bending via the forestay.
  Theoretically, at least, bending the mast forward could lessen any weather helm.  Me, I have no interest in such things as I think the benefits would be negligable. But I could be wrong.
I enjoy sailing too much to turn it into and engineering experiment although I do enjoy tweeking the boat. Considering I have a 23, mast bending is not an option.
bob23

Hi Bob23,
your right.  I think the former owner might have turned it into an experiment...I'll lean it for weather helm and enjoy the sail.  I'm in a little town (not even a stop light) called Bellwood, in Florida.  That's about 10 miles south of Titusville (the cape).
thanks for your thoughts,
ROGUE

[rogue]

rogue asks, " Perhaps the side stays are too lose? About how tight should the side stays be? "

Taught sitting at the dock in no wind. If you grab hold of the stay and wiggle it you'll see the mast bend.

The windward side tighter then the lee side when sailing, the lee side will appear to be loose from spreader down to deck and a tad tighter above spreader to deck. Which ever tac the boat is on.

At least for my CP-19. This is my stock answer. I have not touched my standing side rigging for years.

skip.

Hi Skip,
my CP16 is an 83 and does not have any spreaders.  However, I follow the rest of your suggestion and I'll give it a try.  I"m on the hard in a little boat Yard in Bellwood Florida...would love to look into a CP19 but the space i rent is only $25.00 per mo. and a 19 will not fit.  Would like to hear about how much you like the extra 3 feet.
As you  know,  the cabin on the CP16 is very small and I'm 6"1'  and 76 yrs old.  Yes, I've gotten stuck down there more then once!
Than ks for the help,
ROGUE

[skip1930]

rogue asks-->"Would like to hear about how much you like the extra 3 feet."

Well I love the CP-19 and do find the quarter births tight. And forget even thinking about the VEE birth.
And spend a small amount of sack time down below. Over nights are great.
I can sleep under the boom tent too. Just hook the boom to the back stay.
I have a single burner butane stove for the cock pit and a boom tent to make galley plus ice and beverages in the bilge under the potty.

I'm really thinking hard about rotating the birth arrangement going port to starboard, not stem to stern.
This gets me a wider birth going from compression post to the swing up stairs and almost 7'-0" long.
What I'd give up is the foot well area, but with the stair picked up, [exposing the potty] their would be a foot well.
I saw this in Bob Burgess's book Handbook of Trailer Sailing and at 5'10" and 61 years old I still can slink in.
The wood cross pieces could be stowed easily and the center matching cushion could be chucked up onto the vee birth
when not in use giving back the factory seating arrangement.

skip.

[rogue]

rogue asks-->"Would like to hear about how much you like the extra 3 feet."

Well I love the CP-19 and do find the quarter births tight. And forget even thinking about the VEE birth.
And spend a small amount of sack time down below. Over nights are great.
I can sleep under the boom tent too. Just hook the boom to the back stay.
I have a single burner butane stove for the cock pit and a boom tent to make galley plus ice and beverages in the bilge under the potty.

I'm really thinking hard about rotating the birth arrangement going port to starboard, not stem to stern.
This gets me a wider birth going from compression post to the swing up stairs and almost 7'-0" long.
What I'd give up is the foot well area, but with the stair picked up, [exposing the potty] their would be a foot well.
I saw this in Bob Burgess's book Handbook of Trailer Sailing and at 5'10" and 61 years old I still can slink in.
The wood cross pieces could be stowed easily and the center matching cushion could be chucked up onto the vee birth
when not in use giving back the factory seating arrangement.

skip.

Thanks Skip.  Compared ti my 16,  Your 19 sounds huge...if you change the birth arrangement let us know how it goes.  When you sleep in the cock pit, do you cover up the foot well? 

[skip1930]

"When you sleep in the cock pit, do you cover up the foot well?"

Nope I have a corrugated rubber mat that I unroll right on the settee and cover me with a blanket or crawl into a sleeping bag and grab my fish pillow.
Man that's living. Warm and comfy. The boom tent keeps the dew off. And I hang a 3 lb coffee can strung on a lanyard over the side and tied to the stern cleat to act as a shock absorber when the hull moves with the waves, either tied to the dock or swinging free on the 150 foot anchor rode in 8 foot of water.

skip.