Bottom paint

[capras801]

I am restoring a 1981 C-16 and am researching bottom paint. I live in central Illinois on Lake Decatur and considering VC 17M Extra. Has anyone had any experience with this product? I know there are alot of lake sailors out there and would appreciate any advice. Thank you in advance, Steve

[BobK]

Steve,
Here in South Carolina where Lake Hartwell reaches 90 degrees in the summer VC 17M is primarally used by the sailors that race their boats.  Us others use a less expensive abaltive bottom coat.  We pulled my friends boat last weekend that has been in the water for the last 2 years with VC 17 and the bottom was clean.  If it works here it will surely work in Illinois.
BobK

[Salty19]

There are as many opinions as there types to choose from.

We need to know a few thing to really help:

1.) Are you a trailer sailor or will you keep the boat in the water? Some paints do not tolerate many wet/dry cycles.
2.) What is the growth on other boats like at your lake? Some paints have more or less anti-fouling ingredients.
3.) Is the boat already painted, and if so are you planning to remove the remainder before painting?
4.) Are you planning on epoxy coat as a protective barrier prior to painting?
5.) What's your budget?
6.) Will you do this yourself?
7.) Are you convinced you really need bottom paint? If trailer sailing..you really don't need it.
8.) How often is re-application acceptable to you?  Every year?  2 or 3 years?  Longer?
9.) Is the "right" color important to you?

[skip1930]

I have used ACE Hardware acrylic enamel waterbase house paint left over from my garden shed on the bottom of my boat mainly because it matched the color from the factory brown paint. This paint was on for two seasons until I found the last two quarts of Petit ? i] blue for $10 a quart at Skipper's Bud marine store, and since my topside has some blue here and there, and I had no brown anywhere else, I painted the bottom blue after just a quick lick and promise with some sanding paper and a sanding block. I spent maybe an afternoon sanding the house paint that was really stuck on the bottom factory paint quite well. Nothing has ever grown on the bottom of my boat yet here in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin.

skip.

[capras801]

Salty19   1.)The boat will stayed at my dock.  2.) They seem to pick up alot of algae. 3.) I have already sanded and applied 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of Topside White to the Interior and Deck, and 2 coats of Topside Blue to the Freeboard. I plan to sand the Bottom before painting but have read to wait until 60 days before launch. 4.) I was not planning to put on a barrier coat but am open for advice. 5.) I picked this boat up for a $100.00 and think I cannot lose any money, yet. 6.) I have done all work myself so far as I don't even know where I would go in central Il for help. The boat was found in 6' high weeds, no tires and had to burn the rim off port side of trailer. That being said I found the cabin to be mostly dry except for carpet and some dampness. Put the boat in my garage and ran a fan 24 hrs for about 5 days. The cockpit was a different story. I have sanded all wood, varnished and replaced the tiller, and companion way hatch out of mahogany. The halyards, sheets and lines need to be replaced but the sails cleaned up nice but we will see how good they really are after launch. I put out a wish list for Christmas and have recieved a new foil rudder, transom ladder and mast light. 7.) It really needs it as I sprayed the Freeboard I did not mask the waterline. 8.) I am retired and am always looking for projects. 9.) I would like to paint it black.       Just a couple more questions---1.) What do you use for a thru hole connector for a mast light? 2.) After you paint with ablative paint can you then put on striping over it or will it come off?  HAVING A GREAT TIME WITH THE BOAT   So far the weather is cooperating

[capras801]

PS.  I have pictures in Photobucket but have been unable to get them to this great site.

[Salty19]

Skip, you have got to be kidding me.  Ace house paint?  Dude...


1.)The boat will stayed at my dock.  Then you definitely need bottom paint!!     But since it won't be in all year in IL due to ice, you want one that allows drying.  Most do, some don't.

2.) They seem to pick up alot of algae.  OK.  Same here.  You want one with higher copper percentage, perhaps 35%.  Even with good paint (I use Petit Vivid) I still get a layer of scum after the season which power washes off easier.  Actually this past year there was almost none (maybe the DNR treated it, I don't know), but in past years lots of scum and grassy growth.  Again easily washed off and not attached like glue.


3.) I have already sanded and applied 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of Topside White to the Interior and Deck, and 2 coats of Topside Blue to the Freeboard. I plan to sand the Bottom before painting but have read to wait until 60 days before launch.       Not true.  Here's the tricky part.  Some paints require long drying time.  Some you must launch within hours or days of painting.  Some tell you you must put the boat in the water by x days after painting.  Minimum and maximum times are listed on the instructions.  Each type is different.  I'm too lazy to research this for you (hey you're retired and I'm a working stiff ), but the dry time should be on the application instructions online and on the side of the can.  I used Petit Vivid.  If I recall correctly, it had no maximum time to launch after painting, but wanted you to wait 2 or 3 days minimum. I forget the exact time, but do recall planning for this and launching 3 days after the final coat.
Go to Petit, Interlux,  and the west marine site and look at the spec sheets.  Also here's a site that will help choose the right paint:  http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/products/antifouling/search.aspx


4.) I was not planning to put on a barrier coat but am open for advice.   I suggest it to help prevent osmotic blistering.  Do a google search on this.  Nasty problem, although Com-pacs are not known for this problem. It's also hard as a rock so it may help prevent scars from hitting bottom.  Fresh water is more susceptible to this than salt.  The barrier coat is kinda optional but with fresh water I would do it. If you don't, well, don't loose sleep over it too much.

5.) I picked this boat up for a $100.00 and think I cannot lose any money, yet.  Wow, fantastic deal!!  You're right, you're way ahead of the money curve no question.  Still, you'll find some paints are $100 gallon, others are closer to $300!!!  You only need roughly 1/2 gallon so if you can get a good deal on 2 quarts..go for it.   Since you have some time, look for sales/deals.

6.) I have done all work myself so far as I don't even know where I would go in central Il for help. The boat was found in 6' high weeds, no tires and had to burn the rim off port side of trailer. That being said I found the cabin to be mostly dry except for carpet and some dampness. Put the boat in my garage and ran a fan 24 hrs for about 5 days. The cockpit was a different story. I have sanded all wood, varnished and replaced the tiller, and companion way hatch out of mahogany. The halyards, sheets and lines need to be replaced but the sails cleaned up nice but we will see how good they really are after launch. I put out a wish list for Christmas and have recieved a new foil rudder, transom ladder and mast light.

OK, that gives you a lot of flexibility with scheduling it based on the paint drying time. However, you'll want to pay attention to the application temperature required.  Probably is not going to happen in Central IL until spring.  So maybe pick a paint that doesn't need long (months) dry time.  I suspect there won't be a problem, most are fast drying.    Maybe do everything else on your list then paint the bottom in April or May--last job before launch.

7.) It really needs it as I sprayed the Freeboard I did not mask the waterline. See # 1

8.) I am retired and am always looking for projects.     OK, then you'll do it yourself which means YOU choose and not rely on boatyard recommendations. And as mentioned, around your schedule.
Some boatyards will only use x, y or z paint limiting your choices which is why I asked.

9.) I would like to paint it black.   Shouldn't be an issue finding black.  A lot of people apply the first coat in a contrasting color (maybe white).  That will let you know when the paint is getting thin.

Frankly your requirements are the same as mine.  I chose Petit Vivid, a hard ablative type.  That means it wears off slower and lasts longer.  But the disadvantage is after about 5 years I'll have to repaint over a coat of the old.  This will build up layers and weight over the long term. Not that big of a deal to me..in 10 years we'll probably have a different boat anyway.

P.S.  Pay close attention to personal safety and boat paint. They are real nasty to your health.  Fresh air and complete body coverage is required.  I wore one of those white suits over my clothes, rubber gloves, hair cover and did it outside. Wear super old clothes in case of contact, discard. Wash any paint off your skin right away.  Much different then house paint.

Just a couple more questions---

1.) What do you use for a thru hole connector for a mast light?  I don't know, our boat came with one from the factory.  Perko makes them, but others will chime in with better quality units. There was a discussion on this while back, search "connector" on this site.

2.) After you paint with ablative paint can you then put on striping over it or will it come off?  Install the striping on clean gelcoat.  Mask with tape then paint (or start with barrier coat if you do that) below the stripe. I'm talking about the vinyl stripe, also known as boot tape. I'm not sure about how to do it with something like polyurethane paint, but imagine you will not want ablative under any striping.

HAVING A GREAT TIME WITH THE BOAT   So far the weather is cooperating.   Lucky dog.  It has been a mild winter here, but still too cold for sailing (Ohio).  And no docks are in until May anyway.


So Central IL huh?  Check out the CLR2012  (Carlyle Lake Rendezvous).  Several of us go there each year and whoop it up.  

[capras801]

Salty 19,  Thanks for all the info.

[wes]

Just a further comment on boot striping - this should be applied to your hull paint, not the ablative bottom paint. It's the very last step of the paint job. Bottom of stripe should be 1" above the waterline (waterline is the transition from hull paint to bottom paint). Be careful to choose a stripe paint that's compatible with your hull paint - for example you can use a 1-part polyurethane stripe paint like Interlux Brightsides on top of a 2-part polyurethane hull paint like Interlux Perfection, but not the other way around.

After painting a 2" boot stripe on my 19, I dressed it up with a 1/2" gold Mylar foil tape stripe directly above. I can tell you the power boaters at my lake are green with envy .

Wes

[CaptRon28]

Petit Vivid is a good choice, but I'd also look at their sister product - Hydrocoat, now available with a slime resistance (SR) build into it. I've been using this for over 15 years on 5 boats. It's advantages include:  you can haul and launch over and over, its scrubbable, it contains teflon along with about 35% copper, its ablative, it costs about 2/3 the price of most other good paints, and its a water suspension forumula while in the can. Not really water based, but it means that its a simple soap and water cleanup on everything that touches it. While in the water, I was getting about 2 to 3 years in salt water. With the boats on trailers or lifts now - I may not ever have to paint them again. One other note - the teflon can be burnished with wet sandpaper or a Scotch abrasive pad to something that resembles a frying pan. Its worth about 1/4 to 1/2 knot of boat speed.

Whatever you wind up with, you'd be better off with an ablative, unless you like to sand off layers of dead paint every couple of years. As the copper vanishes, so does the layer of paint holding it.

[djweir]

I have been using V-17 for about ten years in the cold waters of Lake Huron.  Never had a problem with it, though I do put a fresh coat on every spring.  It is expensive, but I think West Marine sells a cheaper version of it.  You do need to be careful and not power wash the bottom when you first pull the boat.

Don Weir

[Salty19]

After painting a 2" boot stripe on my 19, I dressed it up with a 1/2" gold Mylar foil tape stripe directly above. I can tell you the power boaters at my lake are green with envy .

Wes

Wes, indeed that does look great.  Our boat came from the factory this way, except I don't believe the stripe is paint bur rather vinyl. Looks great.