Trailer tongue extension

[Billy]

I trailer my boat everytime I sail. Living in FL 80% of the time it is in salt water. I hate getting my wheels in the salt and I do not have 4 wheel drive. I have wanted to build one of these for a long time just haven't gotten around to it. I just came up with an idea and wanted to get some thoughts and input from others who may have built their own, or at least thinking of building one.

Instead of getting a bar or pipe how about this......

Since it would only be used to back the trailer into the water and retreave it,  it would only need be in tension. So what if I line up the trailer with the ramp and start to back it down. Then engage the parking break, get out, chalk the tires, and disconnect the trailer. Then pull up several feet and just run a chain (or two) from the frame of my truck (where I hook up the existing tow chains) to the chains on my trailer. Then back her on down.

The cost would only be the cost of the chains and 2 hooks. I figure about $15 at Ace. if anyone thinks this is a bad idea please let me know ASAP cause I really think this will work.

Thoughts?

[Bob23]

   I know it would work because I've done it! But not at a tame, smooth boat ramp but off a sandy beach located in Barnegat Bay, NJ. Just before hurricane Irene threatened to hit us, I had to pull a friends Precision 15 keelboat out of the water. I backed the trailer over the small dune and into the bay but it wasn't far enough by a long shot and I wasn't gonna back my Tundra 4WD into the water.
  We unhooked the trailer, pushed it by hand into the bay until it was deep enough to load the boat, chained the trailer to the truck and pulled forward in 4WD low with the trailer jack wheel on a plank so it would ride up smoothly. Once it was far enough out of the bay, we re-hooked it up to the truck, pulled the whole she-bang out and put the boat to bed. All this while it was dark, raining, thundering and lightning.
   So, yeah, your idea will indeed work. Use 2 chains...don't want to see that trailer come disconnected and head for Davey Jones Locker!
Bob23

[JTMeissner]

How is the apex of the trailer being held up?  Do you mean to put down the trailer leg to keep the tongue from dragging on the ramp (most are not designed to roll under load for any great distance).  You are now counting solely on gravity, and have no ability to make course corrections should you not make the perfect alignment.

At my ramp, imperfections in the slabs laid down mean I have bumps to go over while pushing the trailer in the water.  No way to do that unless there's a rigid connection.  The shallowness of this ramp also means I have to push greatly into the water, even when I remember that the trailer tilts (haven't got that system down yet, should they let more water out at the dam, the ramp actually gets steeper which would help with the launch).  And it's not the widest ramp I've ever used, so small corrections are constant.

I have looked into trailer tongue extensions as I used to be in saltwater and also do not have a 4x4, but that dropped down the list of things to work on after moving.  However, I did read elsewhere online of others doing pretty much what you describe (using the trailer leg wheel to roll the tongue and a winch to control the descent), but the forum consensus was that it wasn't a good idea.

Bob23 replied while I was typing...  Emergency situations not withstanding, perhaps not a common practice to engage in.

[kahpho]

Hey Billy,

What you describe is done all the time in some places. My friend launches his boat regularly that way. He uses a heavy duty web strap and a strongly mounted tongue wheel (6 or 8 inch wheel). I don't think I'd trust a standard tongue jack with the small wheel to not fold up on a ramp joint. I once watched a guy launch his keel boat in our local lake this way. He needed about six feet of water to float off the trailer. Worked well.

I haven't done it myself. The Legacy is just too easy to launch .

[Billy]

Do you guys think I'll really need to use the tongue jack? I have a feeling that most of the ramps I use are steep enough I wouldn't need to use the tongue. However there are a few ramps with pot holes I do need to push through.

Corrections??? Oh I line it up straight, straighter than I can sail!

[skip1930]

OOPS! Make this a CP-19  sorry~ This is a Com-Pac 23 so she weighs...around 2300lb plus trailer 900lb give or take. Stand back. If it's out of control your not going to stop it with your body.  Best to have a competent person on a 'Whoe stick' handy and hope the tire don't hump over the 'Whoe stick', which is how Palmer Johnson stops 104 metric ton yacht on four 8 wheel semi truck tires on dollies pulled with a cable and articulated front end loader [ once we get her out of the building ] or by 10 ton traveling tram-way pulling straight up on a cable through a floor mounted snatch block bolted to the building column, making a horizontal pull between building columns. To rotate and steer the truck dollies we jack each one up one at a time and manually turn them. Our 'Whoe sticks are 4" x 4" or 6" x 6".

Ramp = slope, slope = gravity = 32 fpm per foot = minus the slope angle puts the load going down hill in a free run of maybe 80 fpm. I was just pulling your chain. Seams you'll be doing that yourself.

Anyway how much chain are you allowing to play out to go from the tow truck to the water? And what makes the trailer flow down hill in a straight line? And to get the hitch off the ball is going to require a rolling jack. All of that is no big deal. I don't think I'd use an open hook on the end of the chain, but rather one with a safety catch, or better yet a clevis and threaded pin at the truck. Bolted at the trailer.[/color]

It'll probably work but it's chancy.  My trailer does have the tonger extension and rolling jack that I usually never use. If this trailer has no extension, one could cut off the end of the square tube, buy another square tube to slide into it and reattach the hitch back onto the new tube. Drill some holes, run a pin and then the trailer will be an extender...better then cutting your fingers off with a run-a-way load. skip.



Trailer extension, pin with brown spacer ring [ actually bottom of boat when popping in the 2" holes for the instruments] The length of the extension is limited to when the end hits the keel.

[Billy]

Skip,
I have a 19 not a 23.
But last night after I posted I got to thinking. My trailer is made from 3" galvanized square tubes. I replaced my axle about 2 years ago and still have it lying in the yard. I know because my wife tells me about it once a month or so. It is heavy so I figured I could at the least salvage it for a few bucks. Anyways, it is made from 2 1/2" tubeing so I thought I could do what Skip suggest, slip the old axel inside of the existing frame of the trailer. My old trailer hitch is rusted so it could afford to be replaced as well.

Sears sells 2 1/2" hitches for $18. There is a metal shop not too far from my house. I could have him cut the hubs off my old axel and the tongue off my trailer. A few pins ($5) some drilled holes and bolts and it could be done with labor for around $50 I'm guessing. I would need to reroute the wires as they currently run inside the tubeing of the frame.

Skip, how are your wires run?

[Keith]

"...one could cut off the end of the square tube, buy another square tube to slide into it and reattach the hitch back onto the new tube. Drill some holes, run a pin and then the trailer will be an extender."

This is exactly what I did shortly after buying my CP-19 in 1998.  Used a 6 (or 8?) foot piece of square tube that telescopes inside the trailer tongue.  I then drilled two sets of holes in it that matched the original ball receiver pattern; one for "extended" position and one for normal trailering.  I use two 1/2 inch bolts to secure it.  I then installed a new ball receiver on the extension and ran the wiring on the outside of the tubing, secured with wire ties.  Works a champ.

HTH

Keith

[sailen69]

Hey Billy,
 I found that launching my CP-16 was very easy when every thing is just right.  I found that depending on the ramp and the water height of the lakes made for a lot of variables.  I have had some close calls at the ramps getting far enough down the ramp to get the boat off or on the trailer.  I started thinking of what kind of extension or modification that would help.  The cost of steel and fabrication can add up.  My thought process changed when I wound up with a second trailer sailboat without an extension.  I wanted something that I could use for any boat.  I first changed my CP-16 hitch to a 2in. ball because all of my other trailers were 2in. along with the other boat.  I then made an extended draw bar for my car.  I made mine 2 ½ feet long and flipped the tab down to lower the ball.  If I did this again, I would make the ball height adjustable so I could easily use this extension with other vehicles.  I used it this summer with a truck that had a hitch much higher than mine.  I would also make it about 4ft. and make a bracket on the trailer to store and transport it.  It does take some time to drop the trailer and change out the hitch twice for a one day outing but saves some major headaches.  Salty 19 and Crazy Carol tried this out on their 19's at Carlyle Lake this summer.  This is one idea that may help you or others.  
Good luck and good sailing,
Rich

[CaptRon28]

Many good ideas, but you can't really extend the trucks square receiver more than about 24 to 30 inches with this kind of extension. And you can't use it on the road safely either. Four feet could work on a very light trailer, but a longer extension can easily overload the receiver on something larger. I bought a heavy duty extension maybe 22 inches long and it has a large warning label about going over around 60% of the vehicles rated hitch (vertical) capacity.

Adding a much larger wheel and pneumatic tire to the tongue area of the trailer works. The tiny solid wheels on most tongue jacks will not - they tend to hang up on uneven surfaces and will break off if forced. Something like a 10 inch wheel and tire securely mounted to the frame will not.

I had a wing keel Catalina 250 with an approx 10 foot hitch extension that slid out from the center tube of the trailer frame. This was mounted under the main tube, but you can store it inside the main tube as well. Pain in the ___, but it did work. Boat needed at least 6 feet of water to float off of the trailer and it was the only way to do it.

For any of these solutions, you've got to be really carefull about backing the trailer wheels past the bottom end of the boat ramp. Many ramps have a sharp drop off at the end of the concrete and you can easily hook the tires on this lip. Recovering the boat and/or trailer could be a nightmare at that point.

[skip1930]

" Skip, how are your wires run? "

Wires are long enough to be plugged in when fully extended. When shortened up they wrap around a factory cleat on the trailer. The wires are inside a flexible wire way often seen on any-o-car. They are corrugated and slit down the middle so the wires can be pressed into the protective and decorative tube.

skip.

[crazycarl]

I use an 18" extension much like Rich's when towing with our Jeep Liberty.  The spare tire mounted on the rear door makes it neccessary.  I agree I wouldn't use anything longer for towing, but I've seen plenty of 4' to 10' extensions being used at the ramp. 
We used an 8' extension on our Bristol to launch.  However, ALL the trailers with extensions longer than 4' had dual axles, so as to not transfer more weight to the tow vehicle.

[skip1930]

If one looks back at skippy's posts and takes a look~see at the trailer pictures, the single axle for the trailer of the CP-19 has been moved as far back as possible to transfer as much weight as possible to the ball.

Additionally this allows the lard-butt to walk astern without the trailer tonger leaving the tarmac when not hitched up the the ball on the Expedition.
Before the axle was moved rearward I had welded-up and installed a small 'jack' mounted on the most rearward cross member of the trailer to keep the tonger down.

skip.

Bob23, Hey dar, I are the lard bucket. All 196 lb. Note that the keel can only hit three out of the four rollers at any one time. She sit on the stern roller with slacked pull strap from the winch or sit on the fwd most roller when tightened up.

And if you look at the rear axle assembly, the 3" angle holding the axle and spring pulls away from the trailer frame. So I removed each wheel and drilled through the angle/frame for a 9/16" dia hex head bolt and bolted that together to eliminate the gap between the two U-bolts, each side, thus pulling the sag, or cantenary [sp] , out of the square steel tube axle.

Thirty dollars! You realize that I hold a Buffalo nickle so tight that the Buffalo poops.  

[Bob23]

   Nice touch with the rear jack, skippy.  I can't say I'd need it for my 23 but it's good to know.
This lard-butt...anyone we'd know?
   I guess I'm a cheater...I use a travel-lift at the marina to launch and haul out my 23 off her trailer. For 30 bucks, why not?
bob23

[NateD]

.... If I did this again, I would make the ball height adjustable so I could easily use this extension with other vehicles.  I used it this summer with a truck that had a hitch much higher than mine.  I would also make it about 4ft. and make a bracket on the trailer to store and transport it...

Rich,

     I really like this idea and you've got me thinking about making one for my 23, but I'm curious about why the height of the ball is important if it is only used for launching? If the ball on the extension is higher than it would typically ride for towing, wouldn't that just tip the tongue upward and the back of the trailer down a bit, which would actually help to float the boat off as it goes down the ramp?

Nate