Alternator on the outboard....

[Billy]

Do any of you have one? if so how do you run the wires into the cabin to the battery. I bought a tohatsu about 9 months ago and this weekend I am going to Cayo Costa state park for three days and figured I would finally hook the alt. up. I am hesitant about drilling a hole through my boat so I wanted to ask for suggestions.

I am thinking I will run the wires through the hole where my gas line goes into the gas locker compartment. Then drill a hole (as small as possible) through the seat on the starboard side under the tank cover as not to be seen and place a gromit around the hull thenrun the wire to my battery in the starboard lazzette. Maybe I'll use some marine caulk (life caulk) at the the opening just to keep out water should the cockpit ever get really wet. Seems easy enough but I am always hesitant to drill into the boat.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreaciated.

Billy

[capt_nemo]

Billy,

If there is any other way to route the wires without going anywhere near the fuel line and fuel storage compartment, seriously consider it. Have you given any thought to a marine waterproof cable fitting thru the transom or deck?

Otherwise, be real careful about running the electrical wires through the same hole as the fuel line and through the fuel locker. Use extra protection against CHAFE  like cable shields/protectors especially where they pass through holes and close to anything that they may rub against. You might even consider a layer of additional protection along the entire length of the cables from engine to battery. And yes, do seal off any holes through which cables enter the starboard lazarette. Not only do you not want water getting into the boat but, more importantly, you don't want any gas fumes getting down into the boat!

Have fun at Cayo Costa. My Sun Cat is located in Port Charlotte!

capt_nemo

[Potcake boy]

Billy,

As you described is the procedure I used on my 19 with never a problem.
Also, keep in mind that the coil is primarily to provide engine ignition and won't have much to spare unless you run higher RPM.  If your motor is electric start then it already has a heavy cable for the battery connection, and of course it will carry the current back to the battery through this same cable.  If the rectifier was added then make sure you use heavy gauge wire as DC drops rapidly over distances.  When I installed mine I think I remember using something like 10 gauge, and the tinned wire they sell in the boat store will last longer than household stuff.

Ron

[Billy]

Didn't think about EXPLOSIONS!!! But my wire is wrapped w/ a plastic cover over the red & black insulation that is already there.  I think I'll have to sleep on this on.

It's not an electric start so there is no existing cable, The wire that came with the motor from the factory is only 16 guage so I think that should be sufficient. Maybe for this weekend I'll just run the wire over the stern & under the lazzerette. Sure it won't be pretty but when my motor isn't running (90% of the time) I can disconnect it from the motor and keep it out of sight. I'll worry about drilling a hole into my boat on another weekend.

Thanks guys!

Any additional suggestions would be welcome.

[skip1930]

For about $80 I can put an alternator on my 5 hp 2 cycle outboard Mercury.
I almost did but realized I'll not charge much of anything. I don't use the motor
very much. It takes hours to charge a battery, and keeping up at night while running
the running lights, even with LED's is a pipe dream.
The wire will run through one of the scuppers holes, over the fuel tank and somehow back to the battery.

So I gave that idea up. Solar Panels? I don't think so. I get 18 to 23 volts dc but ONLY 300 miliamps....Like pissing into the ocean to make it overflow...ain't gonna happen. I suppose I could update my panel but 'How good is good?' Watts don't mean a lot to me. I can't grasp the technology or worth of a solar panel.

skip.

[curtisv]

Billy,

This is not strictly about your wiring problem, but related to using an alternator.

I used to have an outboard with an alternator.  I realized two things.  Or maybe two or more.

First, I almost never used the outboard so it was useless weight on the transom most of the time.  Second, I'd have to run the motor for a very long time to pick up much of a charge.

In the summer of 2003 I was approaching the path of the commercial fishing fleet on their way out at about 4AM.  My battery was in poor shape and my NAV lights had been running all night and were now quite dim.  That was the only time I used the motor for a charge.  I idled it about 20 minutes and had nice bright NAV lights until I shut it down and then they dimmed fairly quickly.

Quick math - 55 AH battery - needs more than 1/2 charge (lights are dim) - 30 AH or more needed - 5A charger - 6+ hours of charging - 20 minutes did almost nothing but keep the lights bright when it was most important, and I wasn't going to idle the motor for 6-8 hours.

Since then, I got rid of the motor (and didn't replace it), replaced the battery with a much larger one, got a water towed generator which so far I haven't used, and put an LED in the forward bicolor light.  So far my tiny solar panel has done a fine job of keeping the battery charged.  I haven't done a dawn to dusk sail since then but if I do, I'll toss the water towed generator over the stern and see if it works.  I probably should try it before then.  I have yet to replace the stern light, anchor light, and cabin lighting as white LEDs are still a bit pricey.  The low cost LED cabin lights tend to give off very little light.  They've figured out how to make red and green cheap, but not yet for white.  I have a few dim white LED cabin lights plus the originals.

Most of us pocket cruisers use the battery only for lights and a small solar panel, good battery, and LEDs should be enough for most sailors.  Some solar panels are now under $2/watt, down from $5/watt a few years ago.  See http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm (and ignore the 230 watt minumum quantity 20 ones) or http://sunelec.com/ and remember that you want 16-18 Vmp (and low wattage).

If you use solar, AGM or gel is better than wet because it can tolerate a few days of being undercharged if your panel needs time to bring the charge back.  Wet is more easily damaged by being left undercharged for days at a time.  AGM or gel may cost twice as much but you may buy a battery less than twice as often.  If you go with gel in particular you want a charge controller as they don't like being overcharged.

Curtis

[brackish]

Billy,

I use the an Anderson power pole connector to connect my start/alternator cable from battery to motor.

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/pp75-red-black-75-amp.html

I take my motor on and off regularly, so needed a quick disconnect that would allow me to do that without having to disconnect from the battery terminals and fish out 10-12 feet of heavy romex type cable with two 8 ga. conductors, which also required the removal of a cable clam on the seat bulkhead.  Initially I was going to use a trolling motor disconnect but too large to go through the stern tube.  This one will just fit through if I shave the corners a bit.  I've back sealed the wires to the terminals and then wrap it with silicone magic tape to completely seal it and make it explosion proof.  It is in the fuel locker and the cable shares the stern tube with the fuel line.  It is so well insulated that I have absolutely no concerns about that, and the locker is considered self venting for gasoline. And of course the locker lid is removed and the power is off in any case where I make or break the contacts, the only time a spark could be exposed.  These are overkill for your situation, the heavy cable is for the starter, but you might consider a disconnect with less ampacity if you take your motor off regularly. A smaller, weatherproof disconnect could be close to your motor, outside the stern tube.

Also agree with CurtisV that these low output alternators don't do much for charging, particularly at the low rpm's we all normally run our motors.  I have a very good, permanently mounted, Guest charger and shore power at my home slip, so the alternator is a secondary source.  If I didn't have the shore power, or was going to go on extended cruises, I would get solar with a charge controller.

[Shawn]

"I get 18 to 23 volts dc but ONLY 300 miliamps......... Watts don't mean a lot to me."

Watts are the measure of power, the amount of work that can be done. Power = current X volts, so in your setup if you have 18v and .300 amps you are getting a touch over 5w of power.

If you like to think about this in current take the wattage of a panel and divide by the voltage, that will give you the amperage. For example I have a 40w panel on my sliding hatch, it outputs at 18v. So 40/18 = 2.2 amps.

Shawn

[skip1930]

"For example I have a 40w panel on my sliding hatch, it outputs at 18v. So 40/18 = 2.2 amps."

Just for talking purposes, in theory...So if I had a dead deep cell 100 amp hour battery it would take 45.45 hours to charge may battery...that's only 2,727 minutes for a charge.
Amps are what? In minutes or hours? Maybe it's 45.45 minutes to charge...I have zero concept of electric anything. All I know is if it's 100% battery powered, it's not very darn good. 'Cept maybe a Mag Flashlight.

My R/C flight control on my aeroplane uses 4.2 volts dc and 300 milliamp for a 45 minute flight on my 72" wing span Gentle Lady glider.

I can hardly wait for electric cars...that'll be a pain in my behind. Especially in below zero weather and I need defrost, wipers, blowers for the heater and heaters for the batteries to power the car, since batteries are only a chemical reaction cut in half by freezing temperatures, and lights on the way home in a snow storm.

If electrics were so good we would have kept them when we developed them 100 years ago. IMHO.

skip.

[Bob23]

Shawn:
   What 40W panel do you have on your 23? Sorry for the off-topic.
Bob23
(Skip: check out the VW concept car XL-1. Although it's just a concept car now it's an interesting step forward in electric car technology. VW does it right. Eat your heart out, Volt. You can't argue with 263 mpg!)

[Shawn]

Skip,

"So if I had a dead deep cell 100 amp hour battery it would take 45.45 hours to charge may battery.."

If you ever ran a deep cell 100 amp/hour battery all the way to 0 you would have a dead battery. For long life don't go down below about 50% discharge, in this case 50 amp/hours. So to recharge in that case you would need about 22 hours of full charging from solar to recover it. Obviously if you are burning 50 amp/hours a day the solar isn't going to recover it all for you. However, if you do that on a weekend you should be recharged again next weekend.

The key to making solar work on a boat is watching your electricity usage and having enough solar to recover it. For example with incandescent lighting you could *easily* be burning 5 amps, run that for 10 hours during the night (50 amp/hours) and your 100 amp/hour deep cycle battery is discharged. It will take several days for the solar to recover it. Change to LEDs and over the same hours you might use 2 amp/hours from the deep cycle. Solar will recover that in an hour.

With GPS, VHF, and autopilot I have never had to manually recharge my battery during the last two seasons, solar has taken care of it.

Shawn

[Shawn]

Bob,

I have a Kyocera 40w panel on my hatch.

http://www.emarineinc.com/products/Kyocera-40-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel-Fixed-Frame.html

I don't think I have a picture with the panel mounted but in this one:



If you look on the hatch you can see two of the teak blocks that I mounted on the hatch. There are two more on the other side. I put 90 degree aluminum angles on the solar panel itself and those fit over the outside edges of the blocks and then the screws you can see there hold the panel in place. The teak was cut at about a 9 degree angle to match the curve of the hatch. I have an electrical connection under the panel for the wiring to pass to the solar controller. You can see the black coiled wire on the underside of the hatch.

This position seemed to be the best place to fit a nice sized solar panel while being mostly out of the way. I take the panel off when I am raising/lowering the mast, it only takes about 5 minutes to remove it. Because I put the electrical connector under the panel (so it acts as an umbrella to make sure water stays out) it reduces how far the hatch can slide by a couple of inches. I didn't want the wiring exposed on the outside as it would be easier to get hung up on. Plus I'd have to watch for UV breakdowns and such.

The solar controller is mounted on the backside of the panel where the switches are. With this wattage solar panel you must use a charge controller or you will kill your battery quickly. I use a SunSaver 6amp unit which was around $40. I chose that instead of the 4.5 amp model (about $25) as the charge voltage can be adjusted for sealed or flooded batteries.

If you want more pics of the mounting let me know.

Shawn

[Shawn]

Found a pic. where you can see the panel....



(should have pulled up the fenders)

Shawn

[Bob23]

Shawn:
   Thanks for the info and photos. Nice installation. I have a much smaller one mounted on my forward hatch. btw, what's in the pvc pipe?  Propane?
Bob23

[skip1930]

"The key to making solar work on a boat is watching your electricity usage and having enough solar to recover it."
Exactly what I have always said. Save electrons.

This is so cool; Did you know that one can actually weigh an empty rechargeable battery and compare it to a fully recharged battery? The difference being the weight of the electrons? Enrico Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Illinois came up with that. In our United States Power Squadron Boating Club we have a women who retired from Fermi after 30+ years. She told us that one.

I have a solar panel. I have done the LED's two seasons ago. I don't turn on the chart plotter unless I need it to point to where I'm going...so I can pull a compass reading. Then I shut her down. I don't scan with the VHS. It's normally off. I don't park anything on the slider hatch because I close it to walk on top of it when sticking the mast. Usually don't listen to talk radio nor play CD's. I do run the depth and knot meter all the time usually. I don't even turn the cell phone on...I'm on the water...somebody wants to talk to me...tough garbanzo beans. They can wait till the boat's back on the dock!

Shawn --> "Amps are what? In minutes or hours?" So amps are always in hours I take it. Thanks. Yes I knew about the 50% rule on deep cells.

Boss --> (Skip: check out the VW concept car XL-1. Although it's just a concept car now it's an interesting step forward in electric car technology. VW does it right. Eat your heart out, [Chevy] Volt. You can't argue with 263 mpg!) <-- So how many hundreds more of electric generating power plants will we need if all ground transpiration is electric? Since we can't store electric very well we have to make it on demand. Just asking...Hummmm 263 mpg supplemented with 3412 btu's per Kw. When it all boils down, 263 miles uses the same amount of energy, no matter what the source of the energy is. So I conclude that 'Big Oil' will be 'Big Energy' and we all will be purchasing btu's in any number of forms. Right?

skip.