Teak work? - Sliding Hatch?

[rdcvsmith]

OK, the tarp is off, most of the snow is gone, clocks are allowing more time in the evening..... I can "start" to get to work!

I will have many questions through the spring getting the Coconut T clean and ready to sail for the first time in over a decade.

Q1 - Can the sliding hatch come off for easier cleaning? My first observation would be to say no (hopefully I missed something!) It appears to me the only way to remove the sliding hatch is to remove the teach rail securing it on (not sure its technical term). If that is the case its probably not worth taking that off just to get a more efficient cleaning ... unless ... go to Q2

Q2 - Teak cleaning - staining - refinishing - etc.  All my exposed woodwork on deck (the handrails, hatch rails, etc.) is pretty dried out (see pics) - is this purely an aesthetic issue for looks and pride or should it truly be taken care of for the sake of the wood and boat?

Q3 - Do people take the wood off by unscrewing it from underneath or just deal with masking off, staining carefully, etc. while it is attached to the boat.

Q4 - if I should work on the wood please give recommendations for the correct products - what cleaner or stain, conditioner, etc.

-thanks, Ray

[Bob23]

Ray:
   The first winter I owned my 1985 23, I removed all the teak that I could including the rails holding the sliding hatch, the grab rails, the bowsprit, the pads for the mainsheet blocks...everything. Except the cabinside eyebrow trims. I tried to remove them but they were on with what appeard to be 5200. Broke the port one to splinters so I leaf the starboard side on.
My teak looked the same as yours and I decided I wanted a very high gloss varnish look. Everything was sanded to bare wood, the I wet sanded a sealer coat of tung oil. I then proceeded to apply 7 coats of Flagship varnish which has a very high UV resistance and a clear, high gloss. I love the look and now, 5 years later, she's ready for some serious spot sanding and more coats of Flagship. But it has held up very well in the NJ sun.
   Be forewarned: This is not fun. Alot of sanding between coats is neccesary and thinning of the first 3 coats is also a must. Cetol is a nice finish, much less labor intensive and doesn't require sanding between coats. I've used in on some of my other smaller boats with good results. I've heard of a finish called Armada that also works well.
   You'll get alot of replies on this one because a lot of folks here have used other methods with good results. Would I choose my flagship route again? I dunno...it's alot of work but here is a photo!

Have fun...and welcome-
Bob23

[Billy]

Ray,
I'm kinda on the other side from Bob. (Please don't get mad at me Bob!)
I like the "natural" look. I feel the cetol & laquer just make it look sticky. And I've never seen a boat that has cetol on the wood that doesn't have it on the fiberglass.

I just lightly sand w/ about a 220 and it will come back really quick. Then I use a teak cleaner (and scrub really hard w/ a brush), then a teak brightener, and then teak oil. LOTS of teak oil. While a bit labor intensive it can be done in a day and you don't need to tape off anything or remove the wood. Just rinse off when your done. This way is more maintainence (not as long term as cetol or a polyurathane) so it needs to be done about three times a year. I'm in FL so the sun wears on it and I use my boat year around. I would do it at least once every 3 months. Sanding and the oil will bring it back to life. The oil is the only UV protectant I use, but as long as you keep applying it (like sun screen) it won't brake down.



But what ever you do, don't stain it cherry or some other wood color. There is no prettier wood than teak!

[Bob23]

Billy:
   I AM SO FUMIN' MAD!!!!! Like I said, after investing all the time I have, I'm open to suggestions. Problem is, I'm spoiled and also locked into the varnish route unless I remove everything again, sand it all off, and try something else. Ain't doing that again.
   Of course, you could just let it go grey like real offshore cruisers do.
Bob23

[capt_nemo]

Ray,

After many boats and lots of teak work I have ONE RECOMMENDATION on surface preparation and TWO PRODUCTS that you should consider if you decide to coat your teak AFTER cleaning, sanding smooth, and vacuuming it.

First, the recommendation on surface prep. After you have prepped the surface by cleaning, sanding, and vacuuming, BEFORE applying ANY coating (except oil) wipe the teakwood thoroughly with a cloth soaked in quick drying ACETONE changing to a clean section of the cloth often. This will serve as a tack cloth to remove any fine dust remaining, but more importantly will serve to remove the natural teakwood oils on the surface and help to ensure a good bond between coating and wood.

One of the products you should consider IF you don't like a lot of sanding but want a nice looking durable finish coating, with ease of maintenance, is Sikkens Cetol Marine (original, teak, or light). It requires NO SANDING between coats and a maintenance coat requires only washing and slight scuffing with a Scotchbrite Pad. I have personally used the original matte finish product on a 32' Bayfield Sailboat, a 35' Island Packet Sailboat, and a 36' Krogen Manatee Trawler, all with lots of Teak.  I was quite pleased at how well it held up under the ravages of salt water, heat, cold, and Ultraviolet Rays from the Sun. My experiences have been so positive over the years that I used Cetol Light to coat all exterior teak and interior wood trim on my 15 month old Com-Pac Sun Cat.

The other product, a type of varnish, is Epiphanes Wood Finish Gloss. It requires NO SANDING btween coats, looks great, and requires light sanding when time for a maintenance coat or two. I used it to coat all the brightwork on my 12' homemade sailboat which was built from scratch with plans.

Have fun! Remember it's a labor of love, but so much more enjoyable without SANDING!

[brackish]

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=3522.0

Not recommending, have to wait a while longer to determine longevity and it is hard to use. 

Hatch comes off easily, other items not so easy in my opinion. 

If my teak had not already been varnished when I got the boat, I would go natural, with quarterly clean, brighten, neutralize and oil.  I like that the best.

[rdcvsmith]

Everyone: thanks for great comments, ideas, thoughts and links so far!
...Brackish ... you said sliding hatch comes off easily but didn't say how,  I will investigate again tomorrow but it seems to have a secure lip pushed forward or pulled back, ... does it bump up over it if I push up?

Every plan starts with some light sanding so I I'll start with that this week.

ttyl
-Ray

[Billy]

Ray,
I think Brack was talking about removing the hatch board, not the cover.....I think.

Brack, looks great! How has it been holding up?

[brackish]

On my 23 it was a matter of removing the two side rails that contain the sliding hatch.  I had a double purpose.  I wanted to paint the inside of the sliding hatch a nice bright gloss white to make it match the headliner in the boat and I wanted to more easily coat the teak rails.  By easy I meant that the rails are removed with easily accessed screws from the inside of the boat without the necessity of drilling out plugs.

The Bristol is holding up fairly well.  I'm due my maintenance coat and will do that in a few weeks.  Supposedly light sand, brush on one coat and done.  We'll see..

[rdcvsmith]

thanks Brack,... so removing the rails with the inside screws is acceptable, good to know, anything I need to know when I reinstall afterwards? (sealants, caulk, etc.)

You can see on some of my pics I have "plugs" extending out from some of the other woodwork ... lightly tap back in with hammer? ... sand flush? or leave be?

thanks, Ray

[skip1930]

It's easy to take the slider off. Unscrew one, or both side of the teak hatch rail, heat and beat it off with a rubber hammer. These screws on my boat do double duty. One side holds the fire extinguisher. The other side holds the VHF radio. No new holes.
Remove the hatch, wash and paint it gloss white inside. Really brightens up the inside. Put it back together with 3-M 5200 in screw holes.
Buy some type of DRY-SLIDE lube and shoot the slide area where the hatch rides on. MAGIC!

As for wood, grab the hose, and wet it down. Squirt on West Marine's Teak Cleaner and scrubby scrubby scrubby with a stiff nylon brush.
Get the wood wet and quenched with the cleaner. Keep rinsing and scrubbing until the dried result looks like what your looking for.
If your lucky, all the old varnish, or Cetal will come off too.

DO NOT take the eye brow off the dog house above the ports. You'll end up with stripped screw holes, and will need to fill these screw holes with epoxy, dry, drill a tiny pilot hole and screw the old fasteners back in. Why? Oh and their are the plugs to deal with.

Let dry. I used a small 1/4 inch hobby brush to re-apply Cetal, no masking needed if your good.

No more for me. I decided to go natural. Wash and scrub and let her dry. Life's too short. You can take a rag and teak oil the teak if you want.
I used MinWax on all the wood inside my boat. And I MinWaxed my bow sprit wood as an experiment. Jury's out.

skip.

[brackish]

thanks Brack,... so removing the rails with the inside screws is acceptable, good to know, anything I need to know when I reinstall afterwards? (sealants, caulk, etc.)

You can see on some of my pics I have "plugs" extending out from some of the other woodwork ... lightly tap back in with hammer? ... sand flush? or leave be?

thanks, Ray

You want to use a non permanent caulk for any item that might need to be removed again.  I think I used BoatLife polysulfide and only in the area of the screws, let the rest of it drain as needed.  my practice is to snug it up but not too tight then take another turn on the screw after it has had time to cure a bit.  If you've sealed the bottom of the rails, no need to prime them to get better adhesion to the oily teak. 

With regard to the plugs, I would make them flush.  tap and sand.  If real loose, replace.

[Bob23]

I'm gonna vote for using bedding compound under anything that is reattached to the deck. Seals great, doesn't harden and can be removed without any problems.
Bob23

[curtisv]

Ray,

Teak can be neglected up to a point.  If it dries out too badly it will crack and it will never look the same.  Yours looks like a good sanding and it'll be fine.

At the very minimum oil it as-is and keep it from cracking.  If you later decide to varnish (or cetol) then clean with acetone.

I'm lazy about this and just touch up the cetol that was first used on the boat.  Not too much on the fiberglass and I get compliments even though anything resembling a close look reveals that its far less than a perfect job.  I find paining carefully is less error prone than masking as all the curves can result in less than a perfect mask.  After scraping off cetol a few times when it bled under the tape I gave up masking.

Oild dries fast so you have to keep at it.  Varnish is a lot of work but looks the best.  Or you could be lazy and sail more.

Curtis

[skip1930]

The really hard decision about all this is, "How far down to 'new teak' do I take the wood before re~applying something back on to it?" And, "What to use?"
Boy that's a tuff one. Back in the old days sailors use to just 'stone' the teak down to nothing and eventually replace the teak and start grinding away the top surface again. Work, work, work.

Lazy, lazy, lazy. skip.