Com-Pac 23 vs Seaward 24

[NateD]

I am looking for my next boat (moving up from a Com-Pac 16) and I have it narrowed down to two possible boats, the Com-Pac 23/2 or the Seaward 24 (or 23, but they are newer and cost more than the 24).

Com-Pac 23/2
Disp: 2,900
Ballast: 1,340
Draft: 27"
Beam: 7' 10"
LWL: 20' 3"
Main (SA): 114
Jib (SA): 136
Total SA: 250
PHRF (Avg): 252

Seaward 24
Disp: 3,100
Ballast: 1,100
Draft: 24"/42"
Beam: 8' 3"
LWL: 22' 2"
Main (SA): 126
Jib (SA): 118
Total SA: 254
PHRF (Avg): 261

I'm surprised that the S24 PHRF is a little lower than the Com-Pac given the longer water line, larger sail plan, and the centerboard. Does anyone have any insights on how these two perform relative to each other? I would think the centerboard would help the S24 to windward, but maybe the added ballast (and slightly deeper draft) of the Com-Pac keep her a bit more upright, helping the keel to dig in more?

Any other general comments about the pros and cons of either?

[brackish]

Can't compare as I haven't sailed either of the Seaward boats but I think a couple of your figures are off on the 23/2.
I believe the displacement is 3000 and the sail area basic plan is 250 (main -114; jib - 136)

[Bob23]

Well, Nate:
   I have a 1985 23/2 and my friend Kev3n has a Seaward 24. It's hard to compare the two. Last time we sailed together, even though he flew a much larger genoa than my 110%, I still outsailed him. He had glassed over his centerboard opening, so he had no centerboard. Apparently, this is not uncommon and I have no clue why.
   There is a ton more room in the S24 down below. There is actually a somewhat enclosed head or a space for a portapotti. Kev3n's had a nice fold down table and was much brighter down below. It's not a bad boat to look at although in my somewhat biased opinion, the CP23 is much more beautiful. The S24 has a bigger, wider cockpit but a much lower bridge deck.
    I never sailed his boat so I have no feedback on performance characteristics of the two. I'd like to know more about the underbody shape of the S24 as compared to the CP23. You are already familiar with the CP16- think of the 23 and her bigger, more developed sister and you have a good starting point.
    While the Seaward's seem to be built well, the word on the street (or water) is that the CP's have a higher lever of quality. The Seaward company was started, as I understand, by some former Compac employees who jumped ship to start thier own company.
Bob23

[NateD]

brackish - I've made the changes you indicated. I had taken my sail measurements for the Com-Pac from the Sailrite database, and it looks like their numbers are off compared to the brochure.

Bob23 - I would certainly agree that I like the lines of the CP23 better than the Seawards, but as you've mentioned, the Seawards have the porta potty well placed behind the bulkhead, the large opening ports let a lot of light in, the extra beam (and length) increases interior space, and (one of the things I really like about the 24, at least the 1988+) they have a nice permanent galley. The biggest benefit I see on the Com-Pacs is the higher quality, good looks, and they are more plentiful and easier to find in my price range (5-8k).

[brackish]

Underbody may have something to do with the difference in PHRF.  Seaward looks somewhat flat towards the stern with a bow profile that is approaching plumb.  While the displacement is 100 lbs. more, the ballast is much less.  Flat profile may be there to provide a little more initial stability given the lower ballast and higher center of gravity, but may end up causing more wetted surface in certain wind conditions.  Just speculation.  The 24 is not listed on Carl's Calculator so I can't get some of the figures such capsize ratio and motion comfort factor.

However, you realize that if both boats are being sailed their best, at the end of a mile you would theoretically be nine seconds behind with the Seaward.  Would make no difference to me.

Do what Tom Ray advised me.  Look at them both and whichever turns your head and makes you smile.....sail them both and your gut will tell you.....

[TedW]

Nate,  If you're out to win races I think you should look at something different than the Com-Pac or Seaward boats.  I've owned a CP-23 for the past 7 years and also looked at Seawards when I was trying to decide.   Aesthetically there is just no comparison.  The Com-Pac is just a fine looking boat.  But I'm never worried about speed.  I also love the feel of the Com-Pac under sail.  I owned a Precision with a swing-keel and prefer no under water moving parts.  I also found the Seawards interior to be very stark and white.  Not much wood.    Hope this helps with your decision.
                                                                    Ted.

[TomatoDave]

I'm going through the same comparison as Nate.  I've always loved the looks of CP's but have never sailed one (and none are available locally).  There's a Seaward 24 for sale here.  Saw it Saturday and I was impressed by the room in the cabin.  I'm 5 10 and didn't have to contort.  Small but workable galley. Lots of light.   Private head.  I think it would be fine for couple and not bad weekender for family of 4.  From what I've read, headroom on CP23 is 4 11, which sounds confining and the galley inconvenient, at best.  And all that teak can appear dark.  I would love to hear about a couple/family overnighting on 23 that from CP owners. 

But I still love the lines of CP, while the Seaward has a slight "toy boat" look to me.  I want a trailerable boat I can take to different lakes and do some light coastal cruising.  S24 seems to fit the bill for living.  Could not sail S24 as no wind and 102 degrees.  Nearest CP23 for sale is 5 hour drive. 

From what I've read, the S24 should be better windward due to centerboard and that is the most exhilarating point of sail for me. That said, not really keen on wheel steering in 24, though it makes it look/feel like a shrunken 27/28.

Another big factor is stepping the mast.  CO of one CP24 told me it takes an hour or more.  CO of S24 (who is 74 and owns 5 sailboat) said he and another can do it in 30 minutes.  I've seen the rigs to single-hand raise mast and would think they would work equally well on both.  I would really like to be able to store on trailer and drive to different lakes frequently, but don't want to spend 2 hours straining with mast.     

As you can see, my heart leans toward CP, but my head (so far) leans toward Seward.  Look forward to hearing your comments.

[newt]

Dave- I wrote you a big letter on how the Compac was better than the Seawind- but it got lost in the ether. Long and short- I go overnighting all the time in my Compac. It is very comfortable for one or two. I step my mast in 30 minutes with two. Not hard at all.

[TomatoDave]

Thanks.  I really think the key is to see one and sail her.  Is the members' list here searchable by location?  I couldn't seem to find it or use "search" for state.

[brackish]

Thanks.  I really think the key is to see one and sail her.  Is the members' list here searchable by location?  I couldn't seem to find it or use "search" for state.

I don't think the members list is but the registry is.

look for this thread:  View the New Com-Pac Registry here

I built one of those mast raising systems and can set it up and raise or lower my mast by myself in about 20 minutes.  My system is an onboard system, no trailer involvement and is a variation of this one customized for a Compac 23 primarily in the way the base attaches to the step:

http://www.tropicalboating.com/sailing/mastraising.html

A word of caution.  While the mast raising and lowering process only takes twenty minutes, it takes me almost another two hours to prep and pack for a long road trip, either retrieve process or launch process.  I'm working on getting that down.  Think I can get the entire process to maybe an hour and a half.  Neither of the boats you are considering are true trailer sailors but transportable sailboats.  There is a difference.  There are trailer sailors that have a twenty minute total ramp time.  But they are smaller.

[TomatoDave]

Got the addresses.  In fact, you may be the closest CP23 owner to me on the registry.  I'm in central Arkansas.

Good advice on the realistic times.  I've been away long enough that I only remember the good parts of sailing, not the other stuff you have to do before/after you sail.  My last boat was 23 as well, and though I didn't trailer her, it still takes some time to get loaded and underway.   

David

[brackish]

Got the addresses.  In fact, you may be the closest CP23 owner to me on the registry.  I'm in central Arkansas.

Good advice on the realistic times.  I've been away long enough that I only remember the good parts of sailing, not the other stuff you have to do before/after you sail.  My last boat was 23 as well, and though I didn't trailer her, it still takes some time to get loaded and underway.   

David

Well, there have been about 650 or so Compac 23's produced and since there is about a half dozen on the registry, certainly there may be some hiding out closer to you.  However, if your travels take you over here, give me some advance notice, I'll check you out on my boat.  Wait a while.  We have a Bermuda high camping over us resulting in 115+ heat indexes and just about dead calm wind conditions. 

The pack and setup times are real and it is pretty hard work, particularly in the heat, up and down a ladder when it's on the trailer.  My plan is to do it a couple of times a year and leave it in the water the rest of the time.  Ultimate plan is to move it and me to the Gulf Coast and leave it in the water all the time.