Prospective Horizon Cat Buyers

[John & Janine]

My wife and I are considering buying a Horizon Cat and would like feedback on this model as well as Com-Pacs  in general.  We're former liveaboards (39' Westerly) from Houston who sailed extensively along the Texas coast as well as two yeasrs in the Bahamas and Eastern Caribbean.  

We moved to Cape Coral, Florida five years ago and are ready to return to sailing after owning a powerboat for four years.  We live in an area that requires shallow draft boats.  In addition, we'd like to trailer the boat to more distant locations and make occasional coastal passages to the Keys and possibly short trips to the Bahamas.  

Neither of us has sailed a cat boat and would appreciate any thoughts members have about the Huchins Company, cat boats in general,  and Horizon Cats.  We've been impressed with what we've read about and seen so far but thought it would be helpful to get "consumers" perspectives.

Appreciatively,
John and Janine

~~~~~

Admin edit: J&J - I'm going to move this up to the Horizon Cat area, it might get seen better there.

My $0.02, while I'm here - What I have heard from other CP 'Cat owners is all good. If you look on the Links page of this site, and then go to the Trailer Sailor site, they have a catboat forum too, and I know there are a couple of CP owners who contribute regularly there (I hope they'll start over here, too! ).

BTW, I have been to Cape Coral, have friends who live there. Beautiful area, I'd *love* to take my CP23 to there and sail around for a while, before meandering south through the 10.000 Islands area and, eventually, the Keys.

Thanks for joining! - Kurt

[compacgreg]

I don't know much about the Catboats that Hutchins makes, but if htey put near the quality into them that they do their other boats, you'll be happy with the quality.  

I live and sail in Maryland.  There is a Horizon that sails the Magothy and I have seen it out several times this Summer.  It seems to sail fairly fast and doesn't seem to heel as much as my 23/2 does.  With only 1 sail, I would guess that it is fairly easy to handle as well.  

catboats as a class tend to be very beamy and roomie inside, since the Horizon is a trailer sailor, might not be as beamy as some.

Hope this helps,
Greg

[whitch]

Have not visited the site for some time. Now I see there is a cat boat section in the Forum..Great!! My wife and I purchased our Horizon Cat in 2002 and took delivery in July 2002. For two people it has enough room for a couple of days or a week of cruising. Ours is hull #12 and has the Westerbeke 7A-1 engine. Hutchins is now using Yanmars. She has a green hull (optional) and we get comments on how nice she looks almost every time we take her out on the Chesapeake Bay. Sails well to weather for a cat boat but when the wind puffs up to 15 or more knots its time to reef. The one large sail is a job to lower. With age it should be easier to handle as now it is quite stiff. Stability is excellent as I suppose it should be with an 8'4" beam. Ours came with a plain steel kickup rudder. Last year , after talking to Rich at the Atlantic City Show, we shipped it back to have it redone in fiberglass. All new boats have the new rudder. It is an improvement. The old one would not hold a steady course while left alone when lowering the sail. We don't trailer. The cockpit is one of it's best attributes. Large and comfortable. I could go on but let me stop here and let you respond. I'm sure you have lots of questions- like why Yanmars now? Send them out and I will give you honest answers. We love the boat but it is not perfect. Of course no boat is.

Bill Hitchner
York, PA

[Gil Weiss]

I have seen several of the green hull cat boats and they are really nice. In my opinion Com Pac makes a quality boat and they all have that "salty sailboat look". I beleive that a sailboat should look like a sailboat if you know what I mean and the Horizon Cat sure has that romantic nostalgic look.

My wife and I checked them out at the last two Atlantic city boat shows and the only reason we have our 1990 CP16 was the cost of a new HC. Go for it, you only live once!

[John & Janine]

Hello Bill - Thanks for the information.  How many adults can you comfortably sit in the cockpit?  Why the switch to Yanmars?  We had a Yanmar on our old sloop and I know they have a good reputation.  What is your typical motoring speed and any thoughts on a diesel versus outboard?  The Com-pac dealer I've spoken to recommends a 9.9 Honda for the outboard.  I noticed a Horizon Cat with split teak on the boom gallows and bowsprit.  How have yours held up?  Thanks for feedback on these questions and any other observations you have.
Regards,
John

[whitch]

John,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. They switched to Yanmars since Westerbeke raised the price of the 7A-1. They use Westerbekes in all their other models. Yanmar is a fine engine and they give you a tach where Westerbeke does not. I hate fooling with outboards,but the diesel is an $8000.00 option!! A 9.9 Honda would be a good choice for an outboard. I lean towards Hondas- own two of the vehicles. When we purchased our Horizon Cat I was told 90% were bought with the diesel. Motor speed is about 5 kts. I have never really checked it closely. The diesel holds 7 gallons and only burns 1 quart per hours at max cruising speed. There is also teak handrails and - I really hate this feature - teak around the the top edge of the cabin. We initially used Cetol but it did not hold up. Had problems with mildew and discoloration.  My brother-in-law swears by it. Found a product  called Teak Guard. Easier to put on and maintain.  Running out of writting room. Promise I will respond to questions faster.    Bill

Ed note: Bill - you can type more stuff in other than what shows in the text box area when you post - just keep typing, and it will all go in. There will be a scroll bar at the right of the box you can use to move the text up and down for editing. Just thought I'd let you know. CaptK

[mmmaged]

If you have not yet ordered your Horizon Cat suggest you try what I did. Hutchins will build a boat with teak only on the bow sprit and steering wheel box for a small variation in cost. Grab rail is stainless, boom gallows hatch boards and guides and eyebrow on cabin are Starboard a tan plastic that looks very pale teak like and no maintainence.

[Ludwigia73]

Won't the stainless get hot in the Florida sun?  Definitely an issue to consider.  (For me, too).  

I've grown up sailing on a Windrose 18, and that's the only sailboat I've been on.  It's considerably slower than other boats in our class, due to it's "girth".  I figure this gives me a little better understanding of a catboat's forward dynamics.  However, sailing is probably going to be completely different.  Anyone care to comment?

[Craig Weis]

I can't say anything about sailing Cat Boats. Sure are pretty.
The Horizons I saw and toured at the boat shows are put together well, and thought out well too.
I always come off the boat saying that's a nice boat.
My neighbor Mr. Tim Graul, Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin is a Navel Architect and he sails a 20 foot Sanderling with a single cylinder diesel covered by a little hump/box in the cockpit soul. That's a big sail and with the right tac and wind velocity his boat is fast. I think the cabins are smallish on cat but make for a comfortable cockpit, Tim's boat is fitted with a coal fired stove for heat, having a Charley Noble' stack leading the fumes outside. Very nautical.  I love all that cockpit combing. Skip.

[John6R]

I am between the 23/4 and the Horizon Cat. The Cat is my top choice because of the layout for 2 and the simplicity of rig and trailering. My home water is on Narragansett bay, RI and in the summer it often blows 15kts + with a bit of chop. My Mariner 19/CB is frequently too light to be comfortable. Will My wife and I be comfortable in the Horizon Cat. I do look forward to sailing on Lake George and Lake Champlain but 95% of the time we will be between Providence and Newport.

[Potcake boy]

John,
Having owned a CP16 early on, in recent years a PicNic Cat, and currently a CP19 I speak from experience when I say that there is nothing out there comparable to Hutchins line of cat boats when it comes to trailer sailing. Even my 16 was a great deal more effort to ready for trailering especially at the end of a hot beer soaked august day at the ramp where you find little breeze except for the verbal abuse coming from obnoxious motorboaters.
I was searching for a Suncat to augment a bigger cruiser just because it is so easy to take some where for a quick sail. Having backed off the bigger boat for a few years I selected a CP19 because I will leave her in the water most of the time, but she can be easily trailered behind my Jeep Wrangler for a trip to the Keys or elsewhere for get away trips.

A CP 23 is not a boat that I would like to trailer unless I used it mainly for sailing trips of several days or more.

I am sure you will find the Horizon Cat way more enjoyable as a trailer sailor. Draft is about the same but the HC has a centerboard overall weight for trailering is considerably more for the 23 - boat and trailer.

If it's about relaxing cruiser, I'm thinking for two to trailer, the HC is a winner in just about every respect.

Having considered the HC as a combination boat for me I have only one reservation about the HC as a cruiser as opposed to a day sailor. The inboard diesel, while it sounds sexy there are a number of drawbacks in a small boat.
1: weight
2: noise and heat in the cabin
3: uses a lot of valuable storage space
4: ease of maintenance - cost of replacement
5: stuffing box
6: fowled prop
7: prop drag
8: dependence on good battery for starting (a pain in the butt to start manually and is why big boats have a separate battery for starting)
9: noisy rough operation of a single cylinder

Don't get me wrong, I love diesel engines (especially those that have two or more cylinders). I don't like the aesthetics of an outboard on the transom of a traditional craft but the advantages of an outboard for a small boat are considerable. For example a Yamaha two cylinder 4 stroke 8hp high thrust power tilt electric start will run quieter and be just as easy to handle and a lot easier to start if you need to pull the cord. You also have the advantage of better boat control when backing or making docking maneuvers at low speed.

The caveat, if you are looking for a used boat you won't have as many to choose from. Most folks seem to be buying into the idea that an inboard diesel makes a big boat of a small boat - maybe that's why there are a good few usually on the market. If you a planning on a new boat obviously you have that option. If you buy new and decide to use a high thrust 25" shaft, you should request a suitable bracket and ask Hutchins to beef up the transom in that area as the above motor can exert a lot of torque on the transom and you may develop stress cracks around the bracket mounting area.

Hutchins doesn't build performance boats as far as speed potential (IMHO) so I'm not sure you would find a dramatic difference in the extent of your cruising grounds between these two boats. Of course as a trailer sailor you'd be in the water and on your way with the HC while you'd still be sweating getting the rig into place on the 23. The HC should also be easier to launch at a shallower ramp, which might facilitate getting you even closer to your cruising destination.

Sorry to ramble but as my daughters always say I seem to have lengthy opinions - I prefer detailed.

In summary:

If you intend to trailer sail - keep it simple, light and shallow draft
If you will berth her - then the previous statement isn't important

Good luck either way and please keep us all posted with details of your own decision.

Nothin' beats experience
Ron

[tmorgan]

I was wondering what the group thinks about sailing a HC to the Bahamas?  I own a Sun Cat and sail her on coastal waters and she is just a great boat.  Can her bigger sister go offshore?

[Potcake boy]

tmorgan,
There is a person here in Florida that has sailed a CP16 to the Bahamas and back a number of times. With that in mind, I'm sure, that with careful planning and preparation you should be able to do it OK. I suspect one of these days I'll point my CP19 in that direction. The closest destination from Florida is Bimini at around 55-60 miles. The next closest is West End on Grand Bahama island at about 60-70 miles. The easiest destination is probably West End as you can leave from Ft. Lauderdale and take advantage of the gulf stream and a beneficial course for the prevailing southeasterly winds of the winter months. Wouldn't want to do the trip from June to October - there are some pretty nasty Tstorms that make an almost daily appearance - not to mention hurricane possibility.

Adventure lies just over the horizon,
Ron