Sail Twist and Travellers!

[Bob23]

Gents (and ladies):
   In this months "Good Old Boat" magazine there is a great article on sail twist and another on travellers 101. This is one of the sailing magazines that I subscribe to and there is always something I can use. I really enjoy learning how to sail more efficiently and am considering changing my main sheeting to mid-boom with a traveller installed on the bridge deck. It makes sense considering the advantage gained in mainsail shape control.
Bob23...bye '09

[Steve Ullrich]

My Hunter 23 was rigged with a mid boom main sheet and traveler.  The addition of a vang made sail shape very easy to customize. 

Gents (and ladies):
   In this months "Good Old Boat" magazine there is a great article on sail twist and another on travellers 101. This is one of the sailing magazines that I subscribe to and there is always something I can use. I really enjoy learning how to sail more efficiently and am considering changing my main sheeting to mid-boom with a traveller installed on the bridge deck. It makes sense considering the advantage gained in mainsail shape control.
Bob23...bye '09

[brackish]

Bob23, I'm considering the same thing.  My last boat, a Columbia 8.7 had mid boom sheeting (actually, the pad eye points on the boom ended up being a little aft of mid boom) and the one big convenience complaint, access to the cabin never was an issue.  Track was on the bridge deck and if we were anchored or in our slip, we just slid the car over to one side or the other and left it there.  When sailing, you could get around it if you needed to go below.  Owned that boat for 16 years and never once thought "boy I wish that main sheet wasn't there".  Of course the Compac is smaller, may be a little more inconvenient.

The Columbia had 6:1 and if I do it on the ComPac I'll install that ratio.  I've found the 4:1 aft arrangement a little worrisome in gusty conditions, particularly when I'm steering from the starboard side.  Popping that sheet loose to spill a little wind takes a little more effort than I like.

[Bob23]

My 23/2 has the standard end 'o boom sheeting currently. But my water-Porsche, a 1979 AMF Force 5, has the standard Harken traveler with mid-boom sheeting. I think that little boat has more strings to pull than my 23!
Anyway, I managed to buy for 5 clams at a nautical flea market this summer a complete traveler, car and block system scrounged from an old sailboat. Not a bad find. I may retrofit it to "Koinonia". I really need to learn how to post photos here. I know it's not hard...just too lazy to do it.
Here's to a happy, healthy, windy 2010! Keep the mast pointin' up!
Bob23

[Potcake boy]

I managed to buy for 5 clams at a nautical flea market this summer a complete traveler, car and block system scrounged from an old sailboat.

Bob - if you are saying that you bought a traveler system for $5.00 then you should be teaching your wife how to shop.  Congratulations and merry Christmas.

Ron

[Bob23]

Ron:
   She knows how to shop but refuses to shop for boat stuff. Why, she's threatened to sell my boats and stuff while I'm away. Imagine that!
   Yep, a local marina hosts a nautical flea market every summer. Anyone can show up to sell their stuff, no table charge. Plus the marina gets to sell old stock. I bought winches for a buck, bottom paint for 10 clams a gallon, anchors, line...you name it. Plus I got a giant inflatable shark for a buck- gag toy for my daughter.
   Bob23- good times in NJ!

   I'm hoping for a warm day soon so I can experiment with sail twist on the Force 5, affectionately named "Linda Gale" after my wife in an attempted diplomatic move. It didn't work.

[brackish]

LOL Bob23, I think you "cut a fat hog" on that one.  Five bucks!  I've been internet pricing a 2:1 traveler system with a 6:1 mainsheet system with 3 point boom loading for my 23 and best I can do is about $400 or so.  I think maybe I need to plan a trip to my son's place in Philly when you have the next flea market and drift over there.

[newt]

Bob, i encourage you to put in midboom sheeting. I love mine. Look at my "sheet to tiller tutorial" in Sailfar and there is a picture of it.

[Mundaysj]

Hi Bob,
As you know I have the mid boom traveler and I like it.  Since I replaced the old mainsheet blocks with a 6:1 system, it handles like a dream!!
I have had it with this cold weather .... Blond Ambition is getting frostbite in my driveway.. LOL
Regards,
Sherie

[Bob23]

Thanks, all.
   Wow! Blonde is in your driveway?! I thought she lived in Atlantic Highlands at the marina! Guess I was mistaken. Yeah, it was cold this last week...Mexico, here I come (I wish)
Best,
Bob23

[Salty19]

I too am considering the traveler system on a 19 to clear the cockpit of lines and to better shape the mainsail.   I would love to see one in person first before I drill any holes.   On the 19, the step into the companionway is quite  bit shorter fore to aft than the 16 or 23.  That step on teh 19 is only about 4" wide vs. about 10" on the 16.  It does look like the traveler would be in the way of entering the cabin, but I guess you can always slide it over.  OTher posts indicate this is not a problem at all.

With the stern rail seats in place, clearing that area of lines could make a big difference for me in tangling my legs in the sheets.
Guess I need to sail it first..come on spring.

Too much $$ though right now--have already spent enough this year on the boat!  So maybe next year.

[kickingbug1]

    salty, john has midboom sheeting on his san juan 23and the traveller is located right in front of the companionway. i have sailed with him numerous times and it really wasnt in the way that much. it does however take up some cockpit space and the ability of the crew to stretch out with her head up near the cabin. it did work great. i wonder if your boomvang would be enough for sail shape. if it were me i would sail her first. im like you and everyone else---itching for spring.

[brackish]

Continuing on this subject, I'm seriously planning this conversion and have a couple of questions:

Sailing hardware is expensive, on a relative basis, so designing the mid boom sheeting arrangement without just throwing overkill money at it is important.  The big six hardware suppliers give rather limited information about specific sizing, generally giving the SWL, MWL and maybe BL information for their components, and then maybe a very wide range of boat lengths for each hardware series.  I wonder if there is a design sheet out there that says for a mainsail of this luff length, this foot length and this total square area, this much force is created at the maximum, pre reef wind conditions, on the most severe point of sail to that wind.  Never seen one, sure wish I could find one.

Secondly, I'm planning a 6:1 ratio sheet.  I'm planning to mount three singles on the boom evenly spaced at about six inch centers, so spread over a foot or so.  On the traveler car end, I'm planning to use a fiddle with cam and then another single attached to it to get three sheaves and a reeving arrangement that is in a single plane and has no crossovers. If my engineering assumptions are correct (that is the question), I can select the singles to be 1/3 the total load of the final connection to the car.  For instance if the fiddle block connection to the car is rated at 1500 lbs.  then each of the singles on the boom could be 500.  that might allow me to go to a lower series for the singles with the only thing to consider making sure that they can take the line size I want.

The current 4:1 end boom arrangement has Ronstan series 40 (determined by measurement, they are not marked).  The double on the boom is rated at 1340, and the two singles on the stern deck are rated at 880.  This would be a starting point.

[Craig Weis]

I always ask:
Is the boat going to sail faster then 5 knots? Or what ever downhill wave drives the hull.
Is this modification going to get in the way of my or the crew's comfort?
Is it going to cost me?

The only change I made was get rid of that side by side block at the end of the boom and replace it with an in-line block*.
Later I added a boom vang*.

It's not the sail shape. It's the hull and 1/4 wave. A function of width and length. If your using glued on red/green telltails on both sails top-middle-bottom and at luff and leech and the appropriate ones are plastered on the sail going straight back then the sail is not going to work the boat any faster.

Added hardware by *Garhauer Marine

skip.

[Salty19]

kicknbug--There is no boom vang on the CP19. I'll probably hold off on that.   As you mentioned and very good advice, I think I'll sail it first, make observations, etc.  before doing anything drastic in the way of sail handling.