CP 16 (1978) ,rigging tension

[nies]

just purchased a loos tension gauge , need to know the right amount (lbs) for side stays and fore stay? thanks..............nies

[NateD]

Hello Nies,

    We're trying to find the optimal tension through unorganized and uncoordinated experimentation right now. So far it seems for the side stays the answer is tight enough that the lee shroud does not appear slack to the eye, but lose enough that there is very little deflection in the mast in high winds.

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2644.0

Nate

[Craig Weis]

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Lay on the vee birth and 'site-tube' up the mast through the open deck hatch. You can actually see the standing rigging pulling a bend on the mast. Make her straight. I realize that the CP-16 has no stern standing rigging, irregardless...

I will say that on my C-P 19 that when sailing and stress is placed on the mast sails and rig that the two stays/shrouds/standing rigging attached to the chainplates [or what ever you wish to call it] on the lee side, [slack side], are just that. Just a hint of looseness, with the stay from the spreader to chainplate just a wee bit looser then the masthead to the chainplate. Masthead to chainplate is just a bit tighter. You'll see this and feel this if the crew holds the tiller and you go forward and 'pluck the strings' while under sail.

While on the windward side the standing rigging is taught. Be mindful that each port or starboard standing rigging coming off the chain plates need their own pin. Do Not use one pin for both standing rigging shrouds. One shroud anchors at the junction of the mast and spreader while the other shroud anchors at the mast head. Two different angles. Additionally assure that the spreaders are horizontal, perpendicular to the mast.

Now fore and aft. With my furler tight and my mast straight up and down, I close up the turnbuckle on the stern till it's kind of tight. Not real tight 'cause there is no reason to try to pull the mast down onto the compression post so hard that the two 5/16" lag screws holding the post into PLYWOOD need to be bent downward. The compression post does not nor was it ever meant to rest on the poured cement keel. The post will be factory screwed into place several inches above the pour. A inspection plate in front of [toward the bow] of the compression post allows one to see the lag screws and judge how well they are seated into the plywood.

What must be avoided at all costs is to place way too much strain on the rig. Don't over tighten anything. Just like setting the sails, sail her loose. Sheet out till she luffs then sheet in till the luff just goes away. skip.

[nies]

thanks for the replies so far, but being a numbers guy i would apprecate lbs for the sides and fore, i have sailed her for thirty years by pinging the stays. according to loos directions 500 on fore and 350 on sides. checked my ping and the gauge read only 11 on the sides and 14 on the fore. both numbers are to low for the chart. tighting to 30.5 (350) on the sides and 35.5(500) on the fore as the chart recommends seems like may be way to tight and may damage the mast. maybe the difference between 11 and 30.5 in tautness is not as great as i thing it is. being a caustous person i want to know the results before tighting the rig to the point of doing any damage. thanks again................nies

[Craig Weis]

Of course if none of these 'Loos numbers' are in pounds, forget I said anything.

OK since I have never 'done da numbers', I have zero idea what they should be in pounds...coming from a Star boat family we just slid the standing rigging on its cars and let her be and bent the mast till she flew.

Maybe somebody has numbers...or set the boat up the way you like and then gage do the numbers and then report back.

Let me add, If this was a CP-19 and not a CP-16, that the numbers suggested below scare me!! Do you realise how delicate a 16 is??? I mean nothing on that CP-16 is heavy, 'cept the cement and pig iron in the keel.
What are 'loos directions'? Some kind of a chart?

'500' what on fore??? Pounds? And that also means '500' on the stern standing rigging. [which you don't have on a CP-16] But that 'triangle' on a CP-19 would want to push the mast through the bottom of the hull via the tabernacle and compression post...
...and '350' what on sides? Pounds? Four cables on a CP-19.

Some '350' on each cable just might pull the chainplate fasteners clean out of the hull, or maybe the attaching fasteners at the spreaders and masthead. Then there is the turnbuckles...there not that big in thread diameter, and these [threaded rods outside the barrow] do bend easily. And last the cable is a '19 composit wound stainless steel wire rope' good for about 500 pounds working and X? prior to failure.

so...'11' and '14' seam plausible to me. Even for a CP-19. Mine are slack [soft] on the lee side.
But 30.5 [350] and 35.5 [500] do sound way too strained and tight to me.

So on a CP-19, '500' is 1/4th the boat's weight.
And '350' is 5.7th of the boats weight.
Or with four, 1.4 of the boats weight.

Your boat. Want to turn it into a pretzel, go ahead.
skip.

[Steve Ullrich]

I hear you Nies.  After fifteen years of tuning rigging with my Loos Gage I like numbers too.  Like you, I quickly found that I couldn't follow the charts in the gage manual for the rigging diameter.  350 on the shrouds is just too much tension for this mast. I decided to just tune it by feel.  I used the main halyard to measure to points port and starboard to keep the mast in column and taped the threads on the turnbuckles to mark locations. I "plucked" the leeward shrouds under sail in winds to 15 mph to see how they felt.  I dropped the sails and eased the turnbuckles an equal number of turns and sailed her again. I did that until I found a point where the leeward shroud started to feel soft, though certainly not slack, then put a couple of turns back on the turnbuckles.  I have currently have the turnbuckles pinned and taped to mark their locations but I have no clue how much tension is actually on the shrouds at this point. They may still be just a little too tight.   I am still able to see a very slight bow to the mast under a load but it is so slight that it doesn't scare me anymore.  When the shrouds were way too tight the bow was obvious to anyone, and an obvious sign that something wasn't right.

thanks for the replies so far, but being a numbers guy i would appreciate lbs for the sides and fore, i have sailed her for thirty years by pinging the stays. according to loos directions 500 on fore and 350 on sides. checked my ping and the gauge read only 11 on the sides and 14 on the fore. both numbers are to low for the chart. tightening to 30.5 (350) on the sides and 35.5(500) on the fore as the chart recommends seems like may be way to tight and may damage the mast. maybe the difference between 11 and 30.5 in tautness is not as great as i thing it is. being a cautious person i want to know the results before tightening the rig to the point of doing any damage. thanks again................nies

[nies]

A E-MAIL TO GERRY HUTCHINS FOR ADVICE "PHIL-in the case of your 16 "seat of the pants" is about the only way. Remember, the stays are only there to keep the mast from falling over. They do not play a part in shaping the sail or the mast. You are correct, you can damage the rig and the boat if you tune too tight. I do not have any numbers that can be used with a gauge. Just keep on doing what you have been doing. The lee side shroud should be floppy when sailing, especially going to weather."     Thanks to all, i will continue to "ping" and use the loos gauge to balance tension of the side stays, its not nor will it be the last $100 dollars ive wasted .  THANKS AGAIN ..........NIES

[Steve Ullrich]

Gerry said that the lee shroud should be floppy? Wow, that surprises me.  I'll loosen mine up a little more but I might stop just short of floppy!

A E-MAIL TO GERRY HUTCHINS FOR ADVICE "PHIL-in the case of your 16 "seat of the pants" is about the only way. Remember, the stays are only there to keep the mast from falling over. They do not play a part in shaping the sail or the mast. You are correct, you can damage the rig and the boat if you tune too tight. I do not have any numbers that can be used with a gauge. Just keep on doing what you have been doing. The lee side shroud should be floppy when sailing, especially going to weather."     Thanks to all, i will continue to "ping" and use the loos gauge to balance tension of the side stays, its not nor will it be the last $100 dollars ive wasted .  THANKS AGAIN ..........NIES

[nies]

IM SURE GERRY MEANT , IF BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY TAUNT, THEN THE LEEWARD SIDE STAY WOULD BE SLACK.......NIES......THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE COMMENTS!!!!