Lee Helm

[old-sailor]

Today I finally was able to sail my 1979 16 for the first time. I noticed a strong lee helm (i.e. I had to keep pushing the boat back into the wind). Is this typical of 16's? Can it be tuned out? Any help would be appreciated.

Otherwise, it was a great sail. The boat was very stable in gusty conditions and a pleasure to sail!

[adschmid]

Lee helm is potentially dangerous and not a characteristic of these boats. If anything, they suffer from too much weather helm. Your mast must be set incorrectly. If I recall correctly...mast deflection forward, towards the bow, reduces weather. Your mast is probably slanting forward, too much. I would check that your mast is standing straight up, perpendicular, to the cabin top, and not leaning forward or aft. In terms of weather helm, you want just enough to make the boat turn up if you happen to fall overboard or become otherwise unable to steer the boat. Having the mast straight up will give you all the weather helm that you need on a cp16. I would definitely get this figured out before you go back out, you could really screw up the boat if you are hit by a strong gust and forced away into an accidental jibe. Not to mention the chance of being tossed over board.

If you have a loose gauge for measuring tension on the standing rigging, I have mine set at 35 on the side stays and 30 on the bow stay. It works great in all conditions.

[Steve Ullrich]

I'm assuming you had a main and jib up?  With the jib alone you would definitely experience lee helm.  Mast rake is the first thing to check... Straight up is a good place to start from, as suggested by adschmid.  A baggy main might require a bit of forward rake to compensate as worn sails encourage weather helm.  On mine, if you use the main halyard like a plumb line, the halyard is about a half inch away from the mast at the base when she is on the hard and level. I definitely have a bit of weather helm but the tiller doesn't feel heavy unless the gusts hit 20 knots or better.  Then it probably should feel a little heavy.

Today I finally was able to sail my 1979 16 for the first time. I noticed a strong lee helm (i.e. I had to keep pushing the boat back into the wind). Is this typical of 16's? Can it be tuned out? Any help would be appreciated.

Otherwise, it was a great sail. The boat was very stable in gusty conditions and a pleasure to sail!

[Rick Klages]

A bit of forward rake is standard on these boats to balance the helm.

[Steve Ullrich]

A bit of forward rake may be common but that doesn't make it a standard.  I don't have forward rake and I have a balanced helm. As I said, you may have to tune the mast with a bit of forward rake to compensate for other factors, like a baggy main.  On the other hand: A large baggy genoa will encourage lee helm and aft rake may be necessary to compensate for that, even with a new main.  Hoist a spinnaker, I'll be surprised if you have weather helm then no matter how your mast is raked.  Other factors affecting weather helm: Sail trim, main sail twist, angle of attack with respect to the boom, luff tension on both sails, outhaul tension on the main, placement of the genoa leads and head sail twist.  Maybe all the old-sailor needs to do is easy the main sheet? Maybe he has his sails trimmed too tight for his point of sail? Haul the boom in to center and just try and handle a broad reach without rounding up. 

As far as rake is concerned: Start with the pole as straight as you can get it and adjust accordingly based on how she handles. Fore or aft rake, whatever it takes to induce a slight amount of weather helm for safety.  Readjust as necessary if you get new sails.  Disclaimer: How she handles is dependent on the condition of your sails and how you have them trimmed.  Is the rudder down all the way?  One old sailor to another: If you are new to sailing try and find an old salt close to home that will go out with you and "show you the ropes".  Else, think about taking a sailing course.  Lots of fun and worth it. I've taken courses up to and including those necessary to earn my ASA Bareboat certification.  Had a blast earning them.

A bit of forward rake is standard on these boats to balance the helm.

[Rick Klages]

Picky!  A standard tuning procedure. Every boat and situation is different. Happy now.

Oh, and yeah it's pretty standard.

[Steve Ullrich]

The gentleman's post states that he has strong lee helm.  I don't think it is good advice to tell a man experiencing strong lee helm that his problems are solved with forward mast rake.  I suggested education and safety and I stand by the advice I've given.  

http://www.nauticed.org/blog/?p=376
http://www.spinnaker-sailing.com/lessons/keelboat2/k_lessone.htm - An excellent site for a lot of reasons.
http://www.owensails.com/?q=node/25
http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/lee-helm
http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/handling/wthrhlm.html
http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/tips.htm
http://www.onemetre.net/Design/Balance/Tune.htm
http://www.lmyc.ca/Weather_Helm.html
http://www.slrmbc.com/page7.html
http://seacracker.com/article_103.htm

Picky!  A standard tuning procedure. Every boat and situation is different. Happy now.

Oh, and yeah it's pretty standard.

[robb_black]

http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html

Great article.  Thanks for sharing these links.

[Rick Klages]

The gentleman's post states that he has strong lee helm.  I don't think it is good advice to tell a man experiencing strong lee helm that his problems are solved with forward mast rake.  I suggested education and safety and I stand by the advice I've given.  

http://www.nauticed.org/blog/?p=376
http://www.spinnaker-sailing.com/lessons/keelboat2/k_lessone.htm - An excellent site for a lot of reasons.
http://www.owensails.com/?q=node/25
http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/lee-helm
http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/handling/wthrhlm.html
http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/tips.htm
http://www.onemetre.net/Design/Balance/Tune.htm
http://www.lmyc.ca/Weather_Helm.html
http://www.slrmbc.com/page7.html
http://seacracker.com/article_103.htm

Picky!  A standard tuning procedure. Every boat and situation is different. Happy now.

Oh, and yeah it's pretty standard.

Yes he may in fact have too much rake already. By the way your tone isn't very friendly.  Go back and re read my posting.  I was not advocating more rake.

[Steve Ullrich]

You are quite welcome Rob.

http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html

Great article.  Thanks for sharing these links.

[romei]

Steve,
I trully enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your knowledge, experience, professional tone and the supporting data that you provide to help the rest of us out.

Keep it up with the great posts.